Eighteen Year Restoration - Then This

[USMCmech]

The Collings B-17 accident has entered the chat.

Despite that horrific crash, there are very few passenger fatalities in warbird flying. Given the small numbers involved its really hard to make rational analysis of the risks involved. At the end of the day, the kind of people who want to fly or ride in warbirds understand that they are much riskier than even normal GA much less 121 operations.

Seggy is 100% right, there is ZERO rational reason for continuing to fly 75 year old airplanes. Except we are not rational creatures, the sight and sounds of these mechanical works of art flying is part of what inspires us to be in this business in the first place.

A while back the Kings put out an analysis that GA flying was the equivalent of riding a motorcycle when it came to risk. We can debate the math, but at a fundamental level it's true. There is no rational reason to have two wheeled "donor cycles" on any public roads (or off road trails either). Every year hundreds of bikers are killed by car drivers who weren't paying attention. However the fun of riding a bike is worth it to a large number of people.

I'm perfectly fine with warbirds being on the far end of the risk spectrum that is still considered normal ops. Past that and we are into military and special cases like helicopter power line maintenance, ag flying, and air tankers that need special oversight.

 

[Boris Badenov]

Pay your money, take your chances. Thankfully we don't (yet) live in a reality wherein the Naders of the world get to make sure we all die in bed.

 

[Roger Roger]

Given how egregious the issues were with that B-17 (and that the Reno crash was maintenance related as well) it does seem appropriate for there to be some level of increased surveillance of warbird operations, particularly the maintenance side. Unfortunately, how many in the FAA know enough about this stuff to even know what to look for?

 

[Seggy]

Given how egregious the issues were with that B-17 (and that the Reno crash was maintenance related as well) it does seem appropriate for there to be some level of increased surveillance of warbird operations, particularly the maintenance side. Unfortunately, how many in the FAA know enough about this stuff to even know what to look for?

Exactly.

 

[Seggy]

Something is missing from your soul if you call yourself a pilot and the sound of a Mustang doesn't inspire you.

Nah, I am good. The Udvar Hazy inspires me in a much safer way.

 

[Seggy]

They are no more dangerous then other GA planes. In fact they are probably safer because most the owners have deep pockets and don’t spare on maintenance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What about the Reno Crash as well as the recent B-17 crash?

 

[fholbert]

What about the Reno Crash as well as the recent B-17 crash?

The Reno accident wasn't a war bird. It just vaguely looked like one.

 

[Inverted25]

What about the Reno Crash as well as the recent B-17 crash?

Collings foundation would fall under the category of those who didn’t maintain their planes. They made the whole segment look bad. I support the FAA shutting them down. What about the child killed by the bonanza that crashed? Why aren’t you calling for all non commercial ops to be banned?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[scooter2525]

There are ZERO reasons that these World War II airplanes should still be flying.

Put them indoors in a museum.

That’s what you said about @jtrain609 as well.

 

[MikeD]

At least thIs crashed TBMs location is known.

 

[fholbert]

Speaking as someone who's home airport has more warbirds than many countries.

The public does have a real appreciation for WWII and seeing the warbirds fly. As tragic as WWII was it was this countries finest hour.

Who under 65 has ever seen a formation of P-38's? I took this picture at Chino's 2013 airshow. F'ing unbelievable!

Chino 2015 - How else would people hear sound of a radial going by at high speed.

 

[fholbert]

I never knew how a P-51 whistled in a high speed dive. Must have been terrifying to be on the receiving end.

See the only flying Zero in the world

People really did this!

If the Heritage Flight doesn't tug at your heart you must be a commie.

 

[MFT1Air]

"Take a picture!" And not "Holy • let's make sure they're ok!"

I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

Go to the multiple videos. Pilot gave a thumbs up. People helped anyway. Superb piloting skills I'd say.

 

[NovemberEcho]

I never knew how a P-51 whistled in a high speed dive. Most have been terrifying to be on the receiving end.
View attachment 58813

See the only flying Zero in the world
View attachment 58814

People really did this!
View attachment 58816

View attachment 58817

If the Heritage Flight doesn't tug at your heart you must be a commie.
View attachment 58815

Holy crap didn’t realize just how tiny the Zero is compared the Hellcat until that pic. All the “Zero’s” I’ve seen were modified T-6’s.

 

[derg]

Neither is the max but you're still probably flying one this weekend.

Jugular vein!

 

[🦈💜]

There are ZERO reasons that these World War II airplanes should still be flying.

Put them indoors in a museum.

The airplanes indoors in museums aren't really airplanes anymore. They're shells, with plywood bulkheads, built-in stairs, and absolutely no soul left whatsoever.

Airplanes are animate machines; they exist to move and to fly. Once they're "converted" to be a museum, they might as well just be a plastic model.

 

[Seggy]

What about the child killed by the bonanza that crashed? Why aren’t you calling for all non commercial ops to be banned?

Because the insurance companies are already doing that. It will be very difficult/more expensive to get GA insurance in a few years driving more folks out.

 

[fholbert]

Holy crap didn’t realize just how tiny the Zero is compared the Hellcat until that pic. All the “Zero’s” I’ve seen were modified T-6’s.

The Zero is small and beat up. Assume the skin is very thin. I must have deleted the pic's of the Zero on the ground, it's pretty ugly.

The Zero is very lite with no protection for the pilot who was an enlisted man, officers stayed on the ground and pointed. US Forces had a real issue dog fighting the Zero until one was captured after a Japanese attack on Dutch Harbor Alaska. The Navy fixed it at North Island in San Diego and flew it to find it's faults. The Zero doesn't turn right worth a crap and its ailerons don't work above 200 knots.

Allied forces simply dived and turned right to get away from a Zero and the war was won. That and a little Fat Boy.

That Zero was destroyed in an accident but allied forces captured more, the Chino Zero was one of six captured (IIRC) when an airfield was overrun.

 

[USMCmech]

Given how egregious the issues were with that B-17 (and that the Reno crash was maintenance related as well) it does seem appropriate for there to be some level of increased surveillance of warbird operations, particularly the maintenance side. Unfortunately, how many in the FAA know enough about this stuff to even know what to look for?

This is a valid critique, and I'm sure everyone involved would welcome anything that would help keep these airplanes safely flying. However, the idea of grounding them all and letting them rot in museums (which hardly anyone visits) is idiotic.

Regarding the crash in the original post, this is the same kind of crash that happens with GA airplanes every month. In this case, nobody got hurt either in the airplane or on the ground. The only damage was the owners wallet and the airplane in question will be recovered and restored in due time.

 

[Apophis]

While we are at it, we should ban people from exploring the backwoods of the National Parks. Let the public view the Grand Canyon from the safety of the visitors center. No one needs to hike to the bottom just for the thrill or bragging rights.*


Something is missing from your soul if you call yourself a pilot and the sound of a Mustang doesn't inspire you.


* If I had it to do all over again, I still would have told my wife to go. A life without adventure is a life wasted.

Yeah, sorry but World War II aircraft in general literally do nothing for me.

I can always appreciate them based on the impact they had in our country’s history, but that’s where my interest ends.

It’s just like classic American muscle cars to me. Boring, uninteresting, and a general waste of my time.

I’d rather have gotten a ride in the Concorde than a B-17 or B-29.

Fight me. I don’t care.