Eagle Management Comes Back to the Table Despite Threats

[zmiller4]

The parking of smaller Eagle jets has been long planned due to fleet retirement and in fact, has been delayed to lack of suitable replacement. This had nothing to do with management current demands of the pilot group. You were at Eagle? Where are you now?

Out of the industry after 5 more years with another regional.

... and your desire to vote on this directly is exactly the party line of people who are 1) scared witless

That makes no sense. If your pilot group supports rejecting it, what are YOU afraid of?

... and frankly, if you derive nothing else from this thread, you should know that if you're not at Eagle, you don't get a say.

Obviously.

This is our vote and our issue. Beyond that, I'm not sure why you'd want to influence it...

I don't. I have no idea where you're getting that.

unless you thought mucking things up might help you wherever you are now...

Not in the least. I do care because people I know are still there and I hope the best for them. By the way, I'd also like you to point out where I "blithely criticized" Eagle pilots.

Fear is your watchword. I get it. Now be quiet.

Fear is my watchword? Good lord. You might want to stop baselessly telling anyone who disagrees with you that they're "afraid" or to be quiet--it doesn't do much for your message. I've told you: I don't think I'd vote for it...but it would be knowing full well that it might mean my job.

By the way, you talk all the time about the "leverage" that regional pilots have, and I actually agree that they're starting to get some....because their employers can't fill seats. You know who you can thank for this "leverage"? The people that said screw it, I'm not flying for that compensation and left (or never went to) the airlines. I left my job during the highest unemployment since the Great Depression because airline flying wasn't providing the life that my family deserves...you want to tell me more about fear?

I'll repost something @Gonzo responded to you in another thread:

They [management] are never really weak because the game is rigged.
The fact that you don't understand that the game is rigged means you don't even understand the game you're playing.

 

[Firebird2XC]

Out of the industry after 5 more years with another regional.

This is just weird. You're not even in the industry, but you spend all this time debating and barking about the nature of it with people who are?

You have absolutely no skin in the game and have the audacity to dictate to others how to handle their careers? The only thing you're doing is muddying the waters for people actually trying to navigate them.

What a complete and utter farce. You really need to reconsider your approach to all of this. You want to claim you've left it all behind to give your family a better life, but in reality you're just living in the past.

The actions of those of us in the industry might not make sense to you, but we're the ones still in it, and we're the ones still trying.

You quit, because regardless of whatever excuse you make you don't have the heart to live this life.

You quit- and because you quit you don't want anybody else to even TRY to succeed because that would only make you have to face your own cowardice.

Just stop. You're embarrassing yourself.

 

[Polar742]

This is just weird. You're not even in the industry, but you spend all this time debating and barking about the nature of it with people who are?

You have absolutely no skin in the game and have the audacity to dictate to others how to handle their careers? The only thing you're doing is muddying the waters for people actually trying to navigate them.

What a complete and utter farce. You really need to reconsider your approach to all of this. You want to claim you've left it all behind to give your family a better life, but in reality you're just living in the past.

The actions of those of us in the industry might not make sense to you, but we're the ones still in it, and we're the ones still trying.

You quit, because regardless of whatever excuse you make you don't have the heart to live this life.

Just stop. You're embarrassing yourself.

He makes salient points, as usual. And was in the industry so he has the experience and knowledge on how stuff works.

He stepped away, so now he sees it through an emotionless view, just seems to be watching for interest of his friends.

Perhaps an opinion you should(but won't) listen to.

People like you are a huge part of the problem because, not only do you rudely alienate people to your cause, you piss them off giving them motive to be an enemy of your cause.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

This is just weird. You're not even in the industry, but you spend all this time debating and barking about the nature of it with people who are?

You have absolutely no skin in the game and have the audacity to dictate to others how to handle their careers? The only thing you're doing is muddying the waters for people actually trying to navigate them.

What a complete and utter farce. You really need to reconsider your approach to all of this. You want to claim you've left it all behind to give your family a better life, but in reality you're just living in the past.

The actions of those of us in the industry might not make sense to you, but we're the ones still in it, and we're the ones still trying.

You quit, because regardless of whatever excuse you make you don't have the heart to live this life.

You quit- and because you quit you don't want anybody else to even TRY to succeed because that would only make you have to face your own cowardice.

Just stop. You're embarrassing yourself.

You're not much of a leader, but you're one hell of a bully.

 

[Firebird2XC]

No, but I think you have some. And that's too much.

My stake and whatever influence I might have is in this is my job, my career, and the support of my peers. You, who are leaving of your own volition, have what stake? You don't own this.

I fight for what's mine and together for those beside me I fight for what's ours. You, who are leaving, because apparently there just isn't enough for you here, fight for nothing. In fact, you really only seem to fight for the sake of fighting. And you fight other pilots!

Just shut up and go do whatever it is you're going to do. You're not contributing anything useful at all, but even then, you feel the need to subjugate and crush the efforts of others. For WHAT?

If I ever had any respect for you, it's all gone now.

Just go, man. If you're not going to stay in the industry and fight alongside us, get the hell out of the way.

 

[derg]

@Firebird2XC, you really need to listen to @Polar742.

This is the airline business, not "Braveheart" before King Edward's army shows up during the fight for Scottish Independence.

I know you're under a lot of pressure, but as much as I beg people on the "national" side of the house to tamp down the vitriol against Eagle, you have to tamp down the aggressive nature of your posts against those that disagree with the cause.

I get to where I don't want to read any of the Eagle threads and I only got involved because a couple of our users on one side of the issue were giving me acid reflux from flashbacks of how we were spoken to every concessionary vote by people who "knew what my best interests were" but got kicked to the curb and had egg on their face when the company proceeded with their business plan in spite of what their "experts" said.

The deck is always stacked in management's favor. ALPA really can't do a lot in this situation and, from what you've seen, don't expect much from above.

 

[zmiller4]

This is just weird. You're not even in the industry, but you spend all this time debating and barking about the nature of it with people who are?

Ha! That's the only remotely reasonable thing I've seen you post in here. It is a little ridiculous that I still read these, but I have a lot of friends still in it and I'd like to see things work out for them.

You have absolutely no skin in the game and have the audacity to dictate to others how to handle their careers? The only thing you're doing is muddying the waters for people actually trying to navigate them.

You have a very interesting interpretation of "dictate". And by "muddying the waters"...do you mean offering an opinion other than yours?

The actions of those of us in the industry might not make sense to you, but we're the ones still in it, and we're the ones still trying.

Absolutely. But I don't think your views necessarily reflect those of all or most regional pilots.

You quit, because regardless of whatever excuse you make you don't have the heart to live this life.

Oh my god, that's choice. You need to put down whatever pop psychology magazine you're reading.

You quit- and because you quit you don't want anybody else to even TRY to succeed because that would only make you have to face your own cowardice.

My own cowa....what? How on earth? I'm a coward for walking away from a career I had 9 years invested in because I saw that the quality of life, compensation, and job stability weren't compatible with the life I wanted to live with my family? Sorry dude, but people who leave or forgo the regionals do just as much to improve the industry as yelling really loudly and calling anyone who doesn't agree with you a coward.

Just stop. You're embarrassing yourself.

I would love to sit down an talk about this over a beer, because I don't think there's any way you're as disconnected from reality as you come across in these posts.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Charlie, maybe your bullying tactics work on others, but they won't work on me. I'm no sissy that is going to back down just because you attack. Get over yourself.

 

[CirrusMonkey]

Excuse me for a sec:

@zmiller4 is that your Cane Corso in your avatar?

 

[zmiller4]

Excuse me for a sec:

@zmiller4 is that your Cane Corso in your avatar?

Ha! Nope, just my boxer, 60lbs, probably 2/3 the size of a Cane Corso. She's got a long face in that photo. Here she is welcoming my 4-day old home:

 

[CirrusMonkey]

Ha! Nope, just my boxer, 60lbs, probably 2/3 the size of a Cane Corso. She's got a long face in that photo. Here she is welcoming my 4-day old home:


View attachment 27088

Holy swing and a miss!!

That's a great picture!

 

[zmiller4]

Holy swing and a miss!!

That's a great picture!

Thanks! There's nothing better than seeing your dog get attached to your child. She gives him his space but *always* needs to know where he is....we moved him once while she was asleep, and when she woke up she sprinted around the house until she found him.

And @Firebird2XC, that photo pretty much sums up why I left. Don't call me a coward again.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

And @Firebird2XC, that photo pretty much sums up why I left. Don't call me a coward again.

Oh, he will. It's how he tries to "win." He attacks viciously anyone who disagrees with him, in the hopes that they'll back down and leave him to spread his gospel unchallenged. It's very similar to the tactics of a certain national officer who, ironically, would never see eye to eye with him.

Good on you for getting out and doing what was right for you and your family, though.

 

[Ian_J]

You quit, because regardless of whatever excuse you make you don't have the heart to live this life.

You quit- and because you quit you don't want anybody else to even TRY to succeed because that would only make you have to face your own cowardice.

Just stop. You're embarrassing yourself.

Didn't you quit the Army as a flying line replaceable unit mechanic?

 

[PhilosopherPilot]

Edit: "Hey JetBlue pilots! Join the ranks of ALPA! We'll have your backs right up until the point that some guys from national deem that you're asking for too much and we'll largely turn our backs on your when the going gets tough".

First off--- I'm a yes vote...

We do have a very vocal and militant wing of our pilot group who I hope to Jesus don't get elected into office. (Assuming ALPA wins, and I think it will.)

But most JetBlue guys see ALPA as a necessary evil, or as the better of two bad options. I'm in that camp. I think we need a CBA, and ALPA will pay a ton of money to get us started. I would prefer in-house, but we cannot afford to get an effective CBA by ourselves. So...welcome ALPA!

We actually have a significant number who want to elect ALPA, get the CBA, then decertify ALPA and go in- house. I think they are smoking crack, but they do exist.

 

[derg]

First off--- I'm a yes vote...

We do have a very vocal and militant wing of our pilot group who I hope to Jesus don't get elected into office. (Assuming ALPA wins, and I think it will.)

But most JetBlue guys see ALPA as a necessary evil, or as the better of two bad options. I'm in that camp. I think we need a CBA, and ALPA will pay a ton of money to get us started. I would prefer in-house, but we cannot afford to get an effective CBA by ourselves. So...welcome ALPA!

We actually have a significant number who want to elect ALPA, get the CBA, then decertify ALPA and go in- house. I think they are smoking crack, but they do exist.

Welcome.

Those types are everywhere.

I'd suggest getting involved if you have the time. The early days of working with a new union are exciting because there really aren't factions yet and it can be a really rewarding experience.

I was on comm and then ended up chairing comm when the former chair had a kid. Then also did some time helping strategic preparedness right up to the strike. It was a lot of fun, we didn't have a lot of pilots that wanted to help and, well, it was fun meeting up at The Landmark and The Runway to talk business (on our own dime).

Some folks made it their lives, but a lot of folks, including myself, were able to keep that balance between the real world and ALPAWorld because they're very VERY different and do not forget that as I will find you and stab you out.

Have some fun with it. Shape it the way you want it to be and use the lessons of what you see us old guys bitching about on the internet as your guide of what to avoid becoming.

 

[PhilosopherPilot]

Welcome.

Those types are everywhere.

I'd suggest getting involved if you have the time. The early days of working with a new union are exciting because there really aren't factions yet and it can be a really rewarding experience.

I was on comm and then ended up chairing comm when the former chair had a kid. Then also did some time helping strategic preparedness right up to the strike. It was a lot of fun, we didn't have a lot of pilots that wanted to help and, well, it was fun meeting up at The Landmark and The Runway to talk business (on our own dime).

Some folks made it their lives, but a lot of folks, including myself, were able to keep that balance between the real world and ALPAWorld because they're very VERY different and do not forget that as I will find you and stab you out.

Have some fun with it. Shape it the way you want it to be and use the lessons of what you see us old guys bitching about on the internet as your guide of what to avoid becoming.

I have some interest in volunteering for the safety committee, but I don't have much stomach for politics or ALPAWorld, so we shall see.

Thanks for the advice though. I'm pretty sure it will be a wild ride for the next 3-4 years!

 

[derg]

I have some interest in volunteering for the safety committee, but I don't have much stomach for politics or ALPAWorld, so we shall see.

Thanks for the advice though. I'm pretty sure it will be a wild ride for the next 3-4 years!

It's a lot of fun in the early days.

I'll buy you a beer and tell you about the early days of ALPA at Skyway, some things we did right, some things we did wrong.

Make sure you look around the forum a bit on union issues and think "Hmmm, do I want THAT at JBLU?"

 

[PhilosopherPilot]

It's a lot of fun in the early days.

I'll buy you a beer and tell you about the early days of ALPA at Skyway, some things we did right, some things we did wrong.

Make sure you look around the forum a bit on union issues and think "Hmmm, do I want THAT at JBLU?"

I know for a fact that we don't want ANY of the guys who post regularly on BluePilots.com in any position of authority. They make APC seem like a lovefest.

We need rational, cool-headed people. The problem is that those guys are often not interested in getting into the fray, at least that's how it seems. Every time I talk to someone who seems smart and put together, I ask them if they are going to do ALPA work. The answer is always HELL NO.

How do you get the "good people" to volunteer, and keep out the guys who want the positions only to "punish the company or burn it down?"

 

[derg]

I've been asked constantly and what's always scared me off is the political nature of it. For a period of time, there were too many 'senioritied' positions where they want you to start on this, prove your worth and move to a more 'senioritied' position.

We had TRRRRRRRBLE IT at DALPA for a long time so I volunteered to fix the forum and the website, because, after all, it's what I end up doing all day here anyway.

"Well, no, we want you on the phone tree".

Even though I don't have any passion for an antiquated, Gutenburg-era level of communication in a world of SMS, social media and rapid fire communications, I wasn't going to waste time resources on dead end projects. I was on the IFC in NYC but suddenly fell out of the loop when I started talking about the high incidence of Malaria and (rumor has it) it came down from "above" that we were to speak of no such things and my involvement was quietly faded out.

The merger was the best thing in the world for us because it disintegrated the old familial method of doing business with both the company and with ourselves.

I don't know, I've got more stuff for "Story time over beers" and my head hurts from moderating all day.

Gonna go drink a beer or six with @DPApilot. Ciao.