Does coming from a 141 school matter?

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Boris Badenov said:
Part 141 produces guys who color between the lines. Part 61 produces all kinds, including people who can color between the lines. I've yet to meet a 141-trained pilot who also reads Attic Greek or can intelligently discuss whether or not Euclid's 4th Proposition is BS. *shrug*
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Perhaps an overlooked point here - I doubt this really has much to do with airmanship or flying ability. The US and foreign military students I have had, overall, have had the best mix of stick and rudder skill and judgement, all else being equal. Part 61 is all over the place, and 141, well, has been the magenta line crowd for the most part.

The military and part 61 folks all tend to know how to do other things than fly airplanes. Most of them have technical degrees, and have had careers outside of aviation. I suspect that their willingness and ability to jump ship from an airline gig makes them less attractive employees, pretty much for that reason alone.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
I did my training part 61 and 141. I was amazed at the 141 guys, and how they didn't know how to have fun flying. It was literally all business for them. I found it to be sad. They had never just rented a plane and flown around for the hell of it.
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I think this is a very important and overlooked point. Flying is fun, especially at the training level.

I remember when I was a CFI I had a couple students that I trained who had come back up from Florida (flight safety or riddle, can't remember, doesn't matter) because they couldn't afford flying at a big name school anymore, and the only thing they cared about was stage checks and passing tests. I had to snap them out of being so focused more than once.

Have some fun! Look out the window! You're flying an airplane man! The most fun I've had in this ridiculous career has been flying light singles with friends on those hazy hot summer evenings. Low and slow cruising over farmers fields and following the river. Climbing just to get some cool air, and to see how high the airplane can get, then lazily coming back down, that was fun! I tell every student that I meet to be sure to enjoy their time in training, because it doesn't last forever, and when you do make it to that transport category aircraft you really will be wishing you had enjoyed the ride.
 
Mark815 said:
I think this is a very important and overlooked point. Flying is fun, especially at the training level.

I remember when I was a CFI I had a couple students that I trained who had come back up from Florida (flight safety or riddle, can't remember, doesn't matter) because they couldn't afford flying at a big name school anymore, and the only thing they cared about was stage checks and passing tests. I had to snap them out of being so focused more than once.

Have some fun! Look out the window! You're flying an airplane man! The most fun I've had in this ridiculous career has been flying light singles with friends on those hazy hot summer evenings. Low and slow cruising over farmers fields and following the river. Climbing just to get some cool air, and to see how high the airplane can get, then lazily coming back down, that was fun! I tell every student that I meet to be sure to enjoy their time in training, because it doesn't last forever, and when you do make it to that transport category aircraft you really will be wishing you had enjoyed the ride.
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Totally agree! I'm of the thinking that Part 141 schools turn out robots errrr I mean pilots, while Part 61 turn out aviators.
 
Cóndor said:
Totally agree! I'm of the thinking that Part 141 schools turn out robots errrr I mean pilots, while Part 61 turn out aviators.
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Both schools turn out pilots. And "aviators" aren't made in 1500 hours. Thinking outside the box happens over thousands of hours of flying. It's more about exposure outside of the training element, which is why preferring 141 vs. 61 is a circle jerk of an argument, and preferring one over the other shows how narrow minded pilots as a whole are. Aviation is as much about checking the boxes as it is about improvising and figuring it out as you go. When was the last time the flight you just took, was exactly the same as the same fight you did, over the same route 6 months ago.

IMO, we, as a community, need to worry more about background of experience rather than what school one attended, where they got their ratings, etc. The person as a whole matters, not who got them the certificates they hold. To add, checking failures at 141 schools can be easily hidden as another training event. That was a sales pitch of the very large 141 school I worked at. Were I on a hiring board, that reason would make me suspect of an applicant from a 141 school. They had better have had a few jobs in between that prove they can pass a check ride.
 
@mshunter, I disagree with you on one point, there are people who, like artists, have a natural aptitude for flying, people that from very early on it was obvious...

From that point on, 61 or 141 means nothing...

... But just a point to ponder (not argue), is I wonder if a 141 school could take away from it by being so rigid in structure, not allowing the aviators to truly shine.

Like I said, this is something I wonder, not a statement I am making...
 
Richman said:
Nobody cares except the people trying to sell you something or rationalizing what they spent.

The ink on your ticket is the same as anyone else's.

The only thing you need in this business to really succeed is an excellent sense of timing.

Richman
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Bull. DCI Academy FTW. Being owned by Delta means everything. :)
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
I was amazed at the 141 guys, and how they didn't know how to have fun flying. It was literally all business for them. I found it to be sad. They had never just rented a plane and flown around for the hell of it.
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This always amazes me when I run into it. You're flying a freggin airplane around, don't you know SOMEONE who would think a ride would be awesome or have something you want to see from the air? Scary those people go on to be professional pilots when they don't even enjoy/take advantage of the freedom of GA flying.
 
ChasenSFO said:
This always amazes me when I run into it. You're flying a freggin airplane around, don't you know SOMEONE who would think a ride would be awesome or have something you want to see from the air? Scary those people go on to be professional pilots when they don't even enjoy/take advantage of the freedom of GA flying.
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I was sad how much I saw that at an airline.
 
Been from one end of this business to the other. Seen a lot of strange stuff....

There are those that insist on pigeon holing what we do into tight little, well labeled, ISO compliant boxes. Those people tend to gravitate towards management and administration, and they can literally suck the life out of any activity. I've seen kids with the adventure in their eyes, only to have it crushed by the soulless bureaucracy . Unfortunately, those kinds of underlings advance when they please their overlings, which usually occurs when they can justify some sort procedural cut in advance of their agenda (to climb the ladder), which transfers the workload from them to the people who they are suppose to be servicing (AKA the student, otherwise known as , the customer....the person writing the checks).

I, for one, will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own. I am not a number, I am a person.

Richman
 
SpiceWeasel said:
Delta cares. Straight from Delta hiring department trained individual working for Endeavor.
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Delta still cares. It was made crystal clear at the OBAP Delta hiring brief that they care. I bumped into one of the Delta reps and OBAP and the first question they asked me..... "Where did you go to school...."
 
Richman said:
Nobody cares except the people trying to sell you something or rationalizing what they spent.

The ink on your ticket is the same as anyone else's.

The only thing you need in this business to really succeed is an excellent sense of timing.

Richman
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I agree, in general- the hours
And ratings are primary qualifiers, but then I'm not going to the Majors. An acquaintance has done so from a 141 school- yet only 10% graduated from there with a big debt.
I wonder what % finish between the two and who owes more.
 
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