Do I Really Need My CFI

[Tommay85]

I really can't understand how someone who does not have a CFI can have a legitimate opinion on this thread. If you have never instructed and not built a career using your CFI, then you cannot know first hand whether it would be beneficial or not to have a CFI.

I did and I do feel most of the same sentiments as z987k does. It was a good start, and a good way to get that first flying job given where I was, but beyond that, it was pretty shallow experience. The ADM, judgement, and stick and rudder skills used during flight instructing just doesn't hold a candle to the other flying I've done. Sorry, but it just doesn't.

I will agree with some of the posts talking about the "soft skills" development, beyond that, no I don't think CFIs are better than non-CFIs or vice versa. This notion that there's somehow something wrong with someone who doesn't have their CFI cert is completely ridiculous and down right offensive to read.

 

[BeRich]

I really can't understand how someone who does not have a CFI can have a legitimate opinion on this thread. If you have never instructed and not built a career using your CFI, then you cannot know first hand whether it would be beneficial or not to have a CFI.

I disagree. If someone worked their way up without getting a CFI, they can explain what they did, and if they wish they had gotten the CFI. Both sides have different, and valid, perspectives.

 

[jafra98]

Do I really need my CFI??? A lot of pros and cons have been posted, get your own answer............

 

[X-Forces]

Haven't read every page of this thread but I do think we've all beat the horse to DEATH when it comes to the "great pilot" comment. First, how is anyone in any position to make a character evaluation of the OP based on a single post? And second, a little confidence never hurt anyone, especially an airman. It's not our jobs to "put people in their place." Just my $0.02...

I have to comment on this one.

"I'm a GREAT pilot" if not intended sarcasticly if not "a little confidence." That is over confidence, otherwise know as a swollen head.

As for the "especially for an airman comment," I completely disagree. For an airman a little confidence, particularly if missed placed, is dangerous. Over confidence is all to often deadly!

You think everyone is ganging up on the original poster just for kicks? No, it is the older, more experienced guys and gals trying to save him from himself.

Take notes.

 

[rwgb1984]

I have to comment on this one.

"I'm a GREAT pilot" if not intended sarcasticly if not "a little confidence." That is over confidence, otherwise know as a swollen head.

As for the "especially for an airman comment," I completely disagree. For an airman a little confidence, particularly if missed placed, is dangerous. Over confidence is all to often deadly!

You think everyone is ganging up on the original poster just for kicks? No, it is the older, more experienced guys and gals trying to save him from himself.

Take notes.

Maybe we should change the word being discussed here... cockiness is bad. Confidence? I don't think confidence is bad. And again, we are making huge assumptions about the OP's character based on a single post. I think it's a little hasty for everybody to immediately start scolding this kid because they said that in their opinion they are a confident pilot.

 

[Tommay85]

It's a simple psych. Someone that's a good pilot doesn't need to or go out telling people how good he is.

A badass doesn't have to tell people why/how they are badass, they just are.

A REAL alpha male doesn't go out and buy a lifted pickup truck with loud pipes, sports car/sedan, or motorcyle and then proceed to break every driving law with it on a consistent basis.

The list goes on, and on, and on. It's compensation for what's not really there, nothing more. I agree, we don't need to go after a few words said on the internet, but any time I see things like this, it's hard not to immediately think to yourself that it isn't shallow and false.

 

[TwoTwoLeft]

The ADM, judgement, and stick and rudder skills used during flight instructing just doesn't hold a candle to the other flying I've done. Sorry, but it just doesn't.

Care to share what that other flying might be? I'm not trying to be a dick. Just interested, that's all.

It's a simple psych. Someone that's a good pilot doesn't need to or go out telling people how good he is.

A badass doesn't have to tell people why/how they are badass, they just are.

A REAL alpha male doesn't go out and buy a lifted pickup truck with loud pipes, sports car/sedan, or motorcyle and then proceed to break every driving law with it on a consistent basis.

The list goes on, and on, and on. It's compensation for what's not really there, nothing more. I agree, we don't need to go after a few words said on the internet, but any time I see things like this, it's hard not to immediately think to yourself that it isn't shallow and false.

Says the guy whose name is UAL747400.... Ok there I was trying to be a dick....

 

[A150K]

This x1000!

Great advice and excellent point. The reason for having a CFI isn't only to teach, but for opportunities later on in your career. Even if the rich guy doesn't need a sign off, but only asks for you to sit right seat, that's now all loggable time thanks to that CFI certificate.

Yep. I don't even work full time as a CFI yet and I've managed to make some pretty good connections.

 

[A150K]

I'm 18 too, I don't have the hours you have, nor the vast opportunity in the immediate future that you have... I have 285 TT, no multi-engine time. I do have my CSEL cert though. How do you do it? Where did you get the funding for all that? I worked as much as a could with school, and a life and I still wasn't able to pay for all of it myself... Especially with that multi time.. You've got a hell of an opportunity, and I just think you need to realize how lucky you are. Hell, I'm extremely fortunate, but I worked my ass off for it.

I'll be quite honest, I've read, and read, and studied for about six months now... I havn't taken any of the CFI tests at this point. I'm actually scared of them, every day I doubt myself, I'm constantly thinking I'm not smart enough to be a CFI... But I'm sure as hell going to try. I stopped busting my ass for flying about a year ago though, it took meeting a girl that I honestly cared about. I always thought I was going to be the single-pilot through college, livin the life, yada yada. But she supports the whole flying thing, and it's fantastic(She even bought my tickets to Hawaii for my 18th birthday).

My point in stating that is that their are other things besides flying, it aint worth stressing out, or giving up your social life for. You're 18 man, It's sweet to be a pilot at this age but you need to be 18 too. Trust these guys when they tell you to take it easy, slow down, and go meet girls, and go to COLLEGE. They are older than us, and are much more wise than we are, that's a fact of life.

A week ago you were saying you wanted to move to Florida just to instruct? Now look at you, so what, you got kicked in the nuts by failing a written test. It's good for ya, shows that you're not perfect, and none of us are. I know most of the comments on here have been blunt, but they're all the freaking truth. These guys will help you as much as they can, if you really want it. At this point though, it seems like you don't actually want their advice, just their pity. They won't give it here, not for this. They've all been through it, and they're probably pretty skeptical of most 18 year old commercial pilots. And by the way your responding to them you're just reinforcing that skepticism. There's a ton of good advice on this thread, you just need to read it with a calm, collected, non-18 year old mind. You asked for their advice, and they all gave you it... But that remark of being a great pilot gave them the fodder they needed and wanted to give you a taste of humility.

And I really want to reinforce the point of going to college.... Go live a little, get back on your feet and do what YOU think is right for YOU.

I appologize for any errors, it's one in the morning and I've been up since five.

Also: If you really want to be a CFI or further your career more, you're going to have to work at it, a lot more than it seems you have. Our generation seems to have an issue with putting an effort into things even if they get something back for it.

Trust me...If I was able to get through CFI training and pass the checkride on the first try, you'll be just fine.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Says the guy whose name is UAL747400.... Ok there I was trying to be a dick....

So much for Gann's "pathological modesty."

(Like Gann, I suck. I swear I only grease it on every once in a while through pure luck.)

 

[JordanD]

It's a simple psych. Someone that's a good pilot doesn't need to or go out telling people how good he is.

A badass doesn't have to tell people why/how they are badass, they just are.

.

There's a reason the Dos Equis commercials aren't narrated by the Dos Equis guy himself.

 

[Tommay85]

Care to share what that other flying might be? I'm not trying to be a dick. Just interested, that's all.







Says the guy whose name is UAL747400.... Ok there I was trying to be a dick....

LOOOOOOOOL, look at my join date! I was a dork, not even a pilot when I joined and I LURVED United 747s!

Aerial survey and part 135 freight is what I've done after flight instructing. I've never said it was a waste, and I do believe the OP should get his CFI as it's yet another door that's opened to you and gives you great experience on the soft skills. As far as flying goes, I felt there were A LOT of holes in my overall experience when I was flight instructing.

Which is why I advocate doing as many different kinds of flying early in one's career, including flight instructing. It's all in preparation for that "poo hitting the fan" day, the diverse pilot will be more likely to have a successful outcome. I hold more trust in the guy with lots of diversity in their flying background than someone that's only flight instructed and then went straight to 121.

I think it's important to clarify some things here. When I or z987k refer to CFI, we're talking about the person that's ONLY done flight training. I personally, am well aware of the things one can do on the side and that is fantastic for the guys that are given that opportunity, but when talking JUST dual given, I do strongly believe that there is a lot of experience missing before one can jump straight into the right seat somewhere.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

There's a reason the Dos Equis commercials aren't narrated by the Dos Equis guy himself.

I am, however, the most interesting FO in the world.

(or maybe that was Firebird2XC)

Stay thirsty, my friends.

 

[Tommay85]

There's a reason the Dos Equis commercials aren't narrated by the Dos Equis guy himself.

LOL

Sans Medusa painted on the side and the fire, I think most people would call the guy getting out of this car a badass.(Even though Buick Skylarks are TERRIBLE)

But when they do this, most would say he's just another D-bag with a little ween. As I car enthusiast, I would still find this badass and hilarious!

 

[rwgb1984]

It's a simple psych. Someone that's a good pilot doesn't need to or go out telling people how good he is.

A badass doesn't have to tell people why/how they are badass, they just are.

A REAL alpha male doesn't go out and buy a lifted pickup truck with loud pipes, sports car/sedan, or motorcyle and then proceed to break every driving law with it on a consistent basis.

The list goes on, and on, and on. It's compensation for what's not really there, nothing more. I agree, we don't need to go after a few words said on the internet, but any time I see things like this, it's hard not to immediately think to yourself that it isn't shallow and false.

It's a simple psych. Someone that's a good pilot doesn't need to or go out telling people how good he is.

A badass doesn't have to tell people why/how they are badass, they just are.

A REAL alpha male doesn't go out and buy a lifted pickup truck with loud pipes, sports car/sedan, or motorcyle and then proceed to break every driving law with it on a consistent basis.

The list goes on, and on, and on. It's compensation for what's not really there, nothing more. I agree, we don't need to go after a few words said on the internet, but any time I see things like this, it's hard not to immediately think to yourself that it isn't shallow and false.

True. But what does that also say about the old cronies who feel like they have the "experience" to smack the "whipper-snapper" into place? Just a thought...

 

[MikeD]

It's a simple psych. Someone that's a good pilot doesn't need to or go out telling people how good he is.

If anyone asks what I do, Im a construction guy on the I-10 freeway.

A REAL alpha male doesn't go out and buy a lifted pickup truck with loud pipes, sports car/sedan, or motorcyle and then proceed to break every driving law with it on a consistent basis.

My '83 lifted K5 Blazer is cool, but I can't get over about 67 mph with it due to the gearing. No speed for me, just some above-average offroad capability.

True. But what does that also say about the old cronies who feel like they have the "experience" to smack the "whipper-snapper" into place? Just a thought...

To me, the young whippersnapper will learn or he won't. Either he'll listen to some wisdom and mature with it, or he'll end up with someone having to scrape his remains off the side of a mountain with a spatula. Those are the two options there are, and neither one can be forced. All I can do as an experienced guy is present the info......whether or not the whippersnapper listens or not, is his/her call.

 

[TwoTwoLeft]

I personally, am well aware of the things one can do on the side and that is fantastic for the guys that are given that opportunity...

An opportunity given to you doesn't mean squat unless you go out there and take it.

 

[drunkenbeagle]

All I can do as an experienced guy is present the info......whether or not the whippersnapper listens or not, is his/her call.

Listen to that macho bravado! You are dangeroussssss!!!!!!

 

[ppragman]

I did and I do feel most of the same sentiments as z987k does. It was a good start, and a good way to get that first flying job given where I was, but beyond that, it was pretty shallow experience. The ADM, judgement, and stick and rudder skills used during flight instructing just doesn't hold a candle to the other flying I've done. Sorry, but it just doesn't.

I will agree with some of the posts talking about the "soft skills" development, beyond that, no I don't think CFIs are better than non-CFIs or vice versa. This notion that there's somehow something wrong with someone who doesn't have their CFI cert is completely ridiculous and down right offensive to read.

I would agree with pretty much all of this some of the time. One thing that CFI-ing does get you is an intimate understanding of the regs and aerodynamics from an academic perspective - CFIs have also flown with a variety of people so they tend to understand how others deal with stress. What they don't have is a lot of "hands-on-yoke" time, a lot of landings from the left seat, or really much experience outside the CFI "bubble." Unless you're the CFI which takes all of their students up into the weather to build them experience, or goes on marginal days, you usually don't do a lot of that. Most of them don't spend a lot of time outside the pattern unless they're in the practice area.

I feel that my time out in the bush, followed by being an FO for 500hrs or so was substantially more valuable than what I would have gotten as a CFI. I flew the airplane, I was down in the weeds, I was shooting approaches, I was either learning on my own or being essentially mentored for the first 1000hrs until I went off on my own. I'd gladly do the same thing over again - though if I could redo it, I'd have gotten the CFI but never used it. I find a lot of guys who were CFIs to be afraid of the wrong things in their first job, and adamant about things that don't matter. A lot of them don't know the limits of their own experience. A lot of them can't turn off the instruction ethos when they should be learning themselves. I don't give a damn how you did it at your flight school, I want you to follow our procedures and practices. I've seen these sorts of guys do a super-duper preflight then miss the write-ups in the can and bitch when they got back about it. I've also seen these guys sweat every ounce of weight on a flight, then procede to take off without any nets up.

The real truth is that these guys are like any other low time, inexperienced guys. Low time and inexperienced. I mad equally stupid mistakes when I was in my first single pilot "PIC" job. Where the CFI has the advantage is in base knowledge, where the other guys have the advantage is in stick and rudder. In the end, early on, its a mostly a wash provided the pilot in question can pull his head out of his ass and be willing to learn. If he's unwilling to learn...well, then voila you have guys without CFIs and guys without stick and rudder time making asses of themselves all over the land.

 

[ppragman]

True. But what does that also say about the old cronies who feel like they have the "experience" to smack the "whipper-snapper" into place? Just a thought...

Sometimes a little "tough love" is required, and I'm not even experienced. Some times a the coddling doesn't work with some guys, and you have to put away the carrot and pull out the stick. Guys who only use stick are dicks, guys who only use carrots are pushovers, as usual in aviation, the middle ground lies somewhere in between.

Personally, what I'll let an FO or a guy I'm quasi-responsible for get away with is pretty much directly proportional to how safe he/she is and how willing he/she is to learn. Do dangerous stuff that scares me all the time and won't listen when I say, "hey, uhhh, you should do things a bit different." The carrot tends to go away and the stick comes out. The reverse is true as they improve.