Do I Really Need My CFI

In my limited experience in the charter/corporate, CFIs are the most valued. Why? They are the ones who usually invite the passengers to sit up front, teach them what different gauges do, make flying fun and had a few customers actually start flight training as a result of sitting up front in a King Air.

The non CFI's generally like the passengers to sit in the back, although they can sure grease the landing like no one else, the CFI's are usually the most requested among long time customers. I'm usually going to go for the CFI. Now if I was hiring a pilot for single pilot freight. I wouldn't care. I would want a pilot based on attitude vs previous flying background.
 
BobDDuck said:
Unrelated... we just started service out to OMA. I haven't had an overnight yet, but I'm really looking forward to one. Apparently it's pretty good.
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Well, this topic is beaten to death, we can derail for a little bit. I like downtown, and if you have a long overnight, there's the zoo. OMA is the epitome of urban sprawl otherwise. You'll know what I mean if you come in at night and see it. The bluffs whip up some nasty mechanical turbulence and down drafts too. I equate it to exactly to what mountain flying is like. Lovely... Oh, but you're in an RJ, MAX POWA!
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Agreed. Bragging about what you did in the sim is like bragging about almost getting the hot chicks number at the bar.

However I know how to put a big airplane in a little spot. I didn't learn this in the right seat of 172.

OMA is a great overnight. If your at the same hotel as us, you're right downtown, plus you get the SW discount at the bar.
 
Nark said:
Agreed. Bragging about what you did in the sim is like bragging about almost getting the hot chicks number at the bar.

However I know how to put a big airplane in a little spot. I didn't learn this in the right seat of 172.

OMA is a great overnight. If your at the same hotel as us, you're right downtown, plus you get the SW discount at the bar.
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I can put the CRJ down in a tight spot. Learned that while instructing in a Katana. Be on speed, don't dork about looking for a greaser, heavy on the brakes.

BUT...if there are paying passengers on board, there is no need for that. Unless its some crazy emergency (very very very very unlikely to happen) I'm going to have more than enough runway to put it down smoothly without scaring the people in the back.

Which is exactly why I say decision making and people skills are immensely better than (only) stick and rudder skills. Those are much more likely to save your bacon in the 121 world (through risk management) than stick and rudder skills.
 
Having a deeper tool box of expirience to make those ADM skills is the name of the game right?
 
Nark said:
Having a deeper tool box of expirience to make those ADM skills is the name of the game right?
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Certainly. I just think that in the list of 1-5 on skills that are the most important in this industry (especially 121) I'd say stick and rudder is probably number 3. A good tool to have, but to steal BobDDuck's best explanation, we usually operate so far towards the center of the safety envelope that it usually doesn't come into play. Usually being the key word.
 
BobDDuck said:
Unrelated... we just started service out to OMA. I haven't had an overnight yet, but I'm really looking forward to one. Apparently it's pretty good.
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The old market district downtown is a a nice area. With family in Nebraska, we were pretty glad to get the CLT-OMA flight, instead of wasting a day with the extra leg to PHX.
 
The people who have never CFI'ed telling me my CFI experience is useless. Cute.

I've CFI'ed, flown 135 boxes, aerial photography, etc...Probably the only thing I haven't done is fly banners (in terms of the entry level gigs). BY FAR the CFI takes the most decision making. What's the difference you might ask? Decision making in most other arena's I've flown in is very Black/White. You either go, or you can't. CFI'ing, you have to many more variables then just the regs, personal minimums for yourself/student, their abilities, and the ability to stand behind the decision of not solo'ing someone while being pressured by 141 management.

The CFI is the only rating that will pay for itself and it's a great back up plan if crap hits the fan.
 
jhugz said:
The people who have never CFI'ed telling me my CFI experience is useless. Cute.

I've CFI'ed, flown 135 boxes, aerial photography, etc...Probably the only thing I haven't done is fly banners (in terms of the entry level gigs). BY FAR the CFI takes the most decision making. What's the difference you might ask? Decision making in most other arena's I've flown in is very Black/White. You either go, or you can't. CFI'ing, you have to many more variables then just the regs, personal minimums for yourself/student, their abilities, and the ability to stand behind the decision of not solo'ing someone while being pressured by 141 management.

The CFI is the only rating that will pay for itself and it's a great back up plan if crap hits the fan.
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All this time as a freight puppy and you've only flown 135 boxes??

You suck! :D
 
jhugz said:
The people who have never CFI'ed telling me my CFI experience is useless. Cute.

I've CFI'ed, flown 135 boxes, aerial photography, etc...Probably the only thing I haven't done is fly banners (in terms of the entry level gigs). BY FAR the CFI takes the most decision making. What's the difference you might ask? Decision making in most other arena's I've flown in is very Black/White. You either go, or you can't. CFI'ing, you have to many more variables then just the regs, personal minimums for yourself/student, their abilities, and the ability to stand behind the decision of not solo'ing someone while being pressured by 141 management.

The CFI is the only rating that will pay for itself and it's a great back up plan if crap hits the fan.
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I'm just not seeing it. We'll have to agree to disagree I guess. I'm not one of the ones that said it was worthless, just that there were gaping holes in experience.

I personally rank my experience in the order of aerial survey->part 135 freight->free lance CFI->student->UND CFI on the level of difficulty with ADM and judgement. Clearly all of our experiences in different fields vary...
 
UAL747400 said:
I'm just not seeing it. We'll have to agree to disagree I guess. I'm not one of the ones that said it was worthless, just that there were gaping holes in experience.
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I wouldn't say "gaping holes in experience", as that would be a misnomer. More accurately, I'd say it's "different types of experience, unique to each." A typical CFI flight and a 135 freight flight are two pretty distinct types of operations from one another. Apart from the fact that both are flight operations; their mission, roles, and objectives are different. Each one is going to have "gaping holes in experience" from the other, in certain ways. And that's neither right or wrong, it's just the difference between the two.
 
MikeD said:
I wouldn't say "gaping holes in experience", as that would be a misnomer. More accurately, I'd say it's "different types of experience, unique to each." A typical CFI flight and a 135 freight flight are two pretty distinct types of operations from one another. Apart from the fact that both are flight operations; their mission, roles, and objectives are different. Each one is going to have "gaping holes in experience" from the other, in certain ways. And that's neither right or wrong, it's just the difference between the two.
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Sure sure, wrong choice of words. I'm just trying to be a yin to all the yang in here, and to continue...
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Dead horse beating is one of the few unwavering constants of JC. :)

For every CFI out there flying multiple approaches IFR and not cancelling while he beats up the pattern; there's a 135 freight guy flying into icing without the appropriate equipment and running his 402/Chieftain/Titan/Lance oversquare.
 
I don't know everybody on this forum. A lot, but not everybody.

From my score card, it looks like there are exactly 5 current or former part 121 captains (that operate with two folks up front as a matter of course) that have posted in this thread. I point those people out because they're the ones that would actually see what's being discussed here, being in the left seat of a part 121 carrier and seeing what types of backgrounds produce what kinds of pilots.

Know what every single one of them said?

Get your CFI.
 
jtrain609 said:
I don't know everybody on this forum. A lot, but not everybody.

From my score card, it looks like there are exactly 5 current or former part 121 captains (that operate with two folks up front as a matter of course) that have posted in this thread. I point those people out because they're the ones that would actually see what's being discussed here, being in the left seat of a part 121 carrier and seeing what types of backgrounds produce what kinds of pilots.

Know what every single one of them said?

Get your CFI.
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Jtrain, you need to go to the F-22 thread in General Topics, last couple of pages, and learn that one's experience in doing the exact job, doesn't matter in the arguments here. :D
 
MikeD said:
Jtrain, you need to go to the F-22 thread in General Topics, last couple of pages, and learn that one's experience in doing the exact job, doesn't matter in the arguments here. :D
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I'm going to break your jaw the next time I see you.

:)
 
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