Diversion Dillema

So let's take the scenario a bit further. You diverted to the alternate, a general aviation airport with a little EAS airline service. They scrounge up some air stairs. You're busy getting gas, trying to get a new release, etc... and one or more of these international passengers now wants to get off the airplane.

You tell them they can't because customs/immigration, and now they're throwing a fit and live streaming their displeasure on social media...

"Ma'am, I'm sorry, but as I've explained US Customs will not allow us to deplane you here because there are no customs officers to handle your international arrival, as this is not an international airport. If you want to walk down the air stairs and try to leave, none of us will attempt to physically stop you but we will be forced to notify local law enforcement if you leave. I know this is a frustrating situation but I think that if you give us a bit to get things figured out you'll be glad you stayed on board."
 
"Ma'am, I'm sorry, but as I've explained US Customs will not allow us to deplane you here because there are no customs officers to handle your international arrival, as this is not an international airport. If you want to walk down the air stairs and try to leave, none of us will attempt to physically stop you but we will be forced to notify local law enforcement if you leave. I know this is a frustrating situation but I think that if you give us a bit to get things figured out you'll be glad you stayed on board."

Years ago we got bounced going into Dayton due to a huge thunderstorm, and ended up in Columbus. The gate agents were busy loading up the America West flight to PHX (just post merger) and couldn't get a jetway on our plane... and then the ramp shut down due to lightning. So we sat for about 45 minutes, with the door open, while this huge thunderstorm rolled over the airport. Right in the middle of it, this guy got angry that we were holding him as a "prisoner" on the airplane and demanded we let him off the plane. After he got pretty lippy with my FA, I told him, that he was welcome to leave but that he wouldn't be able to come back on the plane until we were ready to leave, and then pulled the curtain aside that was blocking most of the wind and rain from the ramp. He took one look out there and went back to his seat and shut up.
 
Years ago we got bounced going into Dayton due to a huge thunderstorm, and ended up in Columbus. The gate agents were busy loading up the America West flight to PHX (just post merger) and couldn't get a jetway on our plane... and then the ramp shut down due to lightning. So we sat for about 45 minutes, with the door open, while this huge thunderstorm rolled over the airport. Right in the middle of it, this guy got angry that we were holding him as a "prisoner" on the airplane and demanded we let him off the plane. After he got pretty lippy with my FA, I told him, that he was welcome to leave but that he wouldn't be able to come back on the plane until we were ready to leave, and then pulled the curtain aside that was blocking most of the wind and rain from the ramp. He took one look out there and went back to his seat and shut up.

Exactly … once you make it clear that you don’t care whether or not he leaves (but there may be other consequences) they usually STFU and sit down.
 
Years ago we got bounced going into Dayton due to a huge thunderstorm, and ended up in Columbus. The gate agents were busy loading up the America West flight to PHX (just post merger) and couldn't get a jetway on our plane... and then the ramp shut down due to lightning. So we sat for about 45 minutes, with the door open, while this huge thunderstorm rolled over the airport. Right in the middle of it, this guy got angry that we were holding him as a "prisoner" on the airplane and demanded we let him off the plane. After he got pretty lippy with my FA, I told him, that he was welcome to leave but that he wouldn't be able to come back on the plane until we were ready to leave, and then pulled the curtain aside that was blocking most of the wind and rain from the ramp. He took one look out there and went back to his seat and shut up.
Wondrous.
 
Scenario:
Departing from an island in the Caribbean enroute to a large city in the Midwest. Alternate is a small city with no 121 air service, about 30 miles west of the destination. No significant weather forecast at time of departure.

Around top of descent you realize that a large thunderstorm has formed just north of the destination airport. Not really associated with a line of storms, just a few supercells. Weather at the alternate is still good - but as it was a paper alternate, you start looking for more realistic alternates.

No such luck. You don't have the fuel to try an approach, miss, and then reach another suitable 121 airport. Dispatch thinks you'll beat the weather to the field, so you continue.

On downwind the storm has reached the north field boundary. You are about to turn base to the east/west runway when you see several lightning strikes between you and the airport. It's still visual between you and the end of the runway, but it's dark and radar is painting extreme rain at the core of the storm, just beginning to encroach on the field.

The other end of the runway is still in the clear and approach offers to vector you around for an approach from that direction.

Airplane full of international pax. Alternate is suitable and VFR, but essentially a GA airport. Still VFR at the airport, but just barely. The whole way from the islands you've made conservative decisions to give a wide berth to even yellow on the radar. But now here's this deep red storm just on the other side of the airport.

What do you think?


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Rhetorical question: What was happening between takeoff and top of descent that apparently no one was monitoring the destination weather?

I'm assuming we're now at a minimum fuel situation. Therefore, customer service is irrelevant, and aeronautical decision making is the only concern. Under those circumstances, a paper alternate IS a viable alternate. It's been vetted and approved for inclusion in the Ops Specs. Your airline should have a contingency plan for offline diversions.

Whether or not you should continue the landing is a question only you can answer. The Dispatcher cannot offer any meaningful input once you enter the pattern.
 
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I'd hold for as long as possible and go the paper alternate, assuming nothing else was available. I'd rather have the company sort out logistics on solid ground than try to push through a storm and land at the destination.
 
Good question. Wifi was inop so we didn't have visibility into destination weather other than hourly metars until dispatch clued us in.


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From a dispatcher perspective this whole situation could have been avoided. Captains if you don’t like what’s on your release DONT SIGN FOR IT. By signing it both of us agree to the plan. If you don’t like your alternate or want more fuel call us and we can come up with a better plan.
As for “paper alternates”, it varies from dispatcher to dispatcher but most of us plug in an alt that even though we know you would never need it (really to say to the FAA we followed 123), say BKN019 in the TAF, we could use. Think 121 stations around the hubs. Never saw a C070 that had “no 121 service” airports on it before. Honestly couldn’t think of any POI that would approve it or why any operator would want to have DPA as an option when MDW would be good as a paper for ORD.
 
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From a dispatcher perspective this whole situation could have been avoided. Captains if you don’t like what’s on your release DONT SIGN FOR IT. By signing it both of us agree to the plan. If you don’t like your alternate or want more fuel call us and we can come up with a better plan.
As for “paper alternates”, it varies from dispatcher to dispatcher but most of us plug in an alt that even though we know you would never need it (really to say to the FAA we followed 123), say BKN019 in the TAF, we could use. Think 121 stations around the hubs. Never saw a C070 that had “no 121 service” airports on it before. Honestly couldn’t think of any POI that would approve it or why any operator would want to have DPA as an option when MDW would be good as a paper for ORD.
Love Du Page. How about South Bend?
 
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