Well here where I work we are a Part 121 supplemental. However we are able to exercise operational control. And our dispatch management promotes it. However I know that this is not the case in most places. And while I understand that supplemental dispatching is different than the flag/domestic dispatch our company here follows flag/domestic rules even though they are not technically required to.
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womanpilot73
Well-Known Member
jaydog said:
Ultimately you really aren't. In practice maybe yes, but in reality, no. They can delegate authority to you but not responsibility, per 121.537. But that is great that you are able to dispatch and make decisions without being micromanaged it sounds like. Nothing worse than having the person who shares operational control with the PIC tell you to do something that isn't legal or is questionable to the point that you wouldn't make that decision if you truly had operational control of the flight. And if you are ever in that situation, I'd suggest having them put their name on that release. The FAA can still hold you somewhat accountable from what I'm told.
womanpilot73 I know we ultimately aren't. I said that in my previous post. My goal wasn't to generate a reminder on regulations. I know what the regulations say regarding both Part 121 and Part 121 supplemental. My point was that anyone who has been given the responsibility of generating safe and legal paperwork for a flight should be allowed to make a decision based upon safety first. And I totally agree that if anyone asks you to do something illegal whether in part 121 or part 121 supplemental I would say no or let them put their name on the papework.
womanpilot73
Well-Known Member
jaydog said:
Ouch. I think you took my response in a negative way, which was not the intent. I was simply responding to your remark that you are able to "exercise operational control".
I was mainly replying so that newbies would understand there is a difference in the regs for operational control between domestic/flag and supplemental operations, not to give you a "reminder" on regs.
Sorry if you took offense to that.
Wolfman14 I do remember those days when management thought better than the dispatcher. It was so frustrating. However you have to stick to what you know is safe and legal and you can't let them bully you around. Remember when they would dictate which alternates we were to use? And then if we didn't they would get mad and jump our cases about it? Those were tough days.
Something that might help. Remember that management is taking orders from above. They then work on fulfilling those orders because if they don't get it fixed they lose their jobs. They aren't protected by a union like you are. So they will do what it takes to save their jobs no different than you would if you were in that position. It's human nature. Not condoning it just saying how things work.
You as a true dispatcher have a unique position. You have operational control along with the pilot concerning the safety of the flight. But you also have to keep in mind that you also play a huge part in the money making part of the company as well. I say this just to say that you have an opportunity to come up with safe solutions in regards to the operation as well. Too many dispatchers just sit back and expect management to come up with the solutions then get mad when a poor solution is made. I have seen it and as a former dispatch instructor (and wolfman14 you know how I taught and what I taught) have calmed many tirades by encouraging the dispatcher to come up with a viable solution to a challenge.
Something that might help. Remember that management is taking orders from above. They then work on fulfilling those orders because if they don't get it fixed they lose their jobs. They aren't protected by a union like you are. So they will do what it takes to save their jobs no different than you would if you were in that position. It's human nature. Not condoning it just saying how things work.
You as a true dispatcher have a unique position. You have operational control along with the pilot concerning the safety of the flight. But you also have to keep in mind that you also play a huge part in the money making part of the company as well. I say this just to say that you have an opportunity to come up with safe solutions in regards to the operation as well. Too many dispatchers just sit back and expect management to come up with the solutions then get mad when a poor solution is made. I have seen it and as a former dispatch instructor (and wolfman14 you know how I taught and what I taught) have calmed many tirades by encouraging the dispatcher to come up with a viable solution to a challenge.
It's been a long 10 hours and it is Friday. It came across that way but I apologize if it sounded harsh. I am not that way in person. I think I took it the wrong way.
I do agree with you that newbies need to understand the regs as written. However I forget that even though we here use the term operational control I understand your point as well. I forget that I work 121 supplemental since everything we do is almost spot on like a part 121. I mean down to just about everything. It's actually quite weird. Trust me if you worked here you would think the exact same thing. But I do need to be careful that I make sure that the language used doesn't confuse newbie dispatchers. So womanpilot73 I apologize for my reaction.
I do agree with you that newbies need to understand the regs as written. However I forget that even though we here use the term operational control I understand your point as well. I forget that I work 121 supplemental since everything we do is almost spot on like a part 121. I mean down to just about everything. It's actually quite weird. Trust me if you worked here you would think the exact same thing. But I do need to be careful that I make sure that the language used doesn't confuse newbie dispatchers. So womanpilot73 I apologize for my reaction.
Flagship_dxer
Penske Material
Until contract negotiation time comes.
By this statement, do you mean that the vast majority of people working at regionals had the option to go into a major but preferred working at a regional airline for whatever reason or that most people who wanted to go into a major but didn't get a chance just left the industry altogether and thus, those who are content with working at a regional make up the majority of employees?
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DispatcherSam
Well-Known Member
Most people working at regionals desire to work for a major. As for the others, they may be content with their location, seniority, workload, or possibly even pay (but I doubt it)
manniax
Well-met in the Ka-tet
Took me over ten years but I made it. I hear and have felt your frustration...but persistence is key! Also I would advise having a professional tweak your resume perhaps...just to make sure it emphasizes your best experience.
MT
Well-Known Member
By this I mean the career regional dispatchers that never leave do so by their own choice. This doesn't include those of us that stopped at a regional enroute to a major or the frustrated quitters (haven't really encountered those).
The choices are many for wanting to stick it out but most of the time they are making enough money where they are to live as comfortably as they desire, they don't want to move or commute, or they are riding near the top of the seniority list and don't want to throw that away.
I don't necessarily agree with their reasons, but it is not my place or life to judge them. At the end of the day they are happy where they are and that can sometimes be worth more than money.
People choose to stay where they are at for a number of reasons. When I worked for Pinnacle I knew dispatchers that we're content on staying at Pinnacle. I don't think it's a right or wrong decision since everyone makes their own decision. Sure I may question their reasons for staying at a regional but hey at the end,of the day you have to do what is best for you not what is best for them.
BayouMLU
Well-Known Member
If you stay someplace for long enough, you can become comfortable. You figure out how to live on a smaller budget, you rise in seniority, get good shifts and days off, develop a routine in work and life, etc. This isn't a bad thing. There is more to life than acquiring money and I can understand how people can stick it out for their careers at a regional. I for one and happy for the people who have become "lifers" in our SOC because they have a wealth of knowledge from which I try to learn every day.
Pardon me if I'm supposed to make another thread for this topic but this discussion brings up another question I had. Between regional airlines and majors, which offers the better opportunity if your goal is to work as a dispatcher part-time? I would assume regional airlines because I've seen the 6-3-3-6 schedule that dispatchers at majors work but I don't know how part-time friendly regional airlines are. I might be one of the people who it makes more sense for to stay at a regional.
Well said. BayouMLU.
Most regionals hire only full time work. I haven't seen any part time position opportunities. I am assuming it is the same for the majors as well. What do you mean part-time?
Burrito
You ARE Freaking out. Man.
Will do my best to absolutely butcher an answer here, but I'd think others on the forum can provide real advice.
If you're in it part-time, take a look around at the 121 supplemental shops, or maybe doing some flight following at a cargo feeder. It might be my own opinion, but having the operational control at a regional (and, at some shops, working 45-60 flights a day) gets a bit overwhelming. Is it possible to do it part-time? I'm sure it is - but my only experience doing things in this line of work part-time came from the 135 side, where you take your fuels and alternates down, call up the hotels, and make sure the rental cars are ready for the crews when they land at (hopefully) their final destinations.
Now, as far as getting a part-time position...That's entirely up to the hiring manager... And at the airline level I'd personally believe they'd want your full 4-on-3-off, 7-day-a-week, non-stop commitment.
Can't speak for any other airlines, but Alaska does have a job-share provision in their contract. You won't get hired as "part-time", and I don't think anyone is actually taking advantage of this option right now, but the possibility is there.
