Disgust with Mangement

[Socal321]

I was a crew scheduler, my first airline job.

I'm an optimist as well, but I have no illusions about how an employer should or will treat me. They need a service done, I perform the service in exchange for payment. It's really no different than when you go buy a Big Mac at McDonald's. You're the customer, you want your needs satisfied. It's the same thing with working. Your employer is the customer. They expect satisfaction for their money. It's up to you to provide it.

I don't expect my employer to "take care of me." It's my job to take care of myself. I do that by recognizing that my well being, as guaranteed by my job and salary, requires me to take care of my employer. Therefore I always strive to do the best job I can. I guess my attitude is, while I recognize that what's good for my employer may not necessarily be good for me, what is bad for my employer IS ultimately going to be bad for me.

Outside of that, all I expect of any employer, or anyone, is that they treat me with the respect and courtesy that one human being owes another. Gratitude? I'd rather have the paycheck. I'll fulfill Maslow's need of love and acceptance in other ways thank you very much.

My opinion? Put these notions aside and place responsibility for your happiness and well being on your own shoulders, where it belongs. You will live a much better and more satisfying life.

You mean like for a 25 year pilot group to be paid fairly?????

Unlike your crew scheduling job. For us, this is not just a job. It's a career. We don't just collect the checks like you might expect at a McDonalds or some place where you "punch out" where you don't expect anything other than a check. People plan their long term lives on what TSA has to provide and if you're going to do that you obviously will need more from your comapny. You are confusing the services of a screw scheduler with the services of a pilot, which do not compare at all. Crew scheduler equals to a job. Pilot, equals to a career, it's worth more.

 

[meritflyer]

So when are you rescinding your company provided medical insurance so as to increase the profits for your company?

This is NOT about rescinding anything. The fundamental issue is where's the line to be drawn? If I went back to XJT today and asked them to help me with a tragic issue, I highly doubt I would even be heard.

The company should pull together for this family.

But you can not expect a company to "write a check" every time something goes wrong.

 

[kellwolf]

What is this? A welfare state?

Get real.

No. It's a "benefit," and I agree. Insurance SHOULD be from day one. Companies offer the benefit to attract qualified candidates. How many guys won't go to CAL b/c they won't have insurance for the first 6 months. Hell, I couldn't AFFORD to go to CAL. I could handle the $30/hr for the first year by planning ahead, but COBRA coverage for 6 months on top of that would eat me alive. And I can't just go 6 months without insurance with a wife that takes daily meds and a 4 year old. If they started insurance from day one, I'd be beating their door down if they were hiring.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

What is this? A welfare state?

Get real.

Well, I could start defending welfare programs, but then your head would probably explode, so I'll leave that for another thread.

So when are you rescinding your company provided medical insurance so as to increase the profits for your company?

:yeahthat:

This is NOT about rescinding anything. The fundamental issue is where's the line to be drawn? If I went back to XJT today and asked them to help me with a tragic issue, I highly doubt I would even be heard.

The company should pull together for this family.

But you can not expect a company to "write a check" every time something goes wrong.

That's not what we want. We just want the company to start providing insurance for everyone instead of imposing these ridiculous arbitrary cutoff points. If a 3-year guy deserves life insurance, then so does the 3-month guy. Does the 3-month guy not also have a family that needs to survive if he unexpectedly dies?

 

[skydog]

You mean like for a 25 year pilot group to be paid fairly?????

Unlike your crew scheduling job. For us, this is not just a job. It's a career. We don't just collect the checks like you might expect at a McDonalds or some place where you "punch out" where you don't expect anything other than a check. People plan their long term lives on what TSA has to provide and if you're going to do that you obviously will need more from your comapny. You are confusing the services of a screw scheduler with the services of a pilot, which do not compare at all. Crew scheduler equals to a job. Pilot, equals to a career, it's worth more.

Really?

Tell that to the VP/Director of Crew Resources at any given airline. Do you think he started out there? Odds are he started out as a crew scheduler, or perhaps even lower and worked his way up.

I myself started out as a Crew Scheduler, then Flight Follower, then Dispatcher, then Dispatch Instructor, then Dispatch Supervisor. Then I started flying.

Contrast that with a pilot who started out in the right seat, or at the panel, and advanced one position, (two) and then spent the next 20 years there, with the only change being how many seats were behind him. Sounds like more of a dead end job to me than the scheduling position.

Truth is, neither is a dead-end job, or both are. It all depends on what you make of it. Ed Rensi, former CEO of McDonalds Corp, started out his career slinging burgers. 14 years later, he was the CEO of the company.

Seems to me you lack the vision to see beyond the next paycheck.

 

[seagull]

I got my latest edition of the ALPA magazine a couple days ago and was absolutely shocked, saddened, sickened, and disgusted when I read a story in there about a Trans States mechanic.

It's on page 36 of the ALPA magazine, but I'll summarize. Mechanic Matthew Walsh was working late at STL on Labor Day 2008. He was returning home after a long shift to his wife and 6 month-old daughter. For unknown reasons, he was shot and killed outside his home by unknown persons. What is unique here is that Matt was only 23 hours from being eligible for TSA's emplyee life insurance. 23 hours. You would think a mere 23 hours, the company would do something, anything to help the family out, after such a tragic loss. To date, the company has done nothing to help the family. The article says the company didn't even offer condolences to the family.


Contrast that to what I read today in the ALPA FastRead about a Pinnacle CA and his daughter who needed a liver transplant.

Now, I realize it's a different kind of situation, but still, it shows just what kind of good management can actually do in these times. There is no excuse for TSA management to react the way they did to a slaying of one of our own, especially at a company as small as we are. It's just sickening and disheartening to see our company treat our employees like this, but I guess it's nothing new for us. Kudos to Pinnacle for trying, and to FEDEX for actually making it happen and giving this little girl and her family a chance.

Yes, quite the set of stories. We do things like that at FedEx very often. I have personally been involved with the company helping out family members and employees with various emergencies. Not too many companies will launch a corporate jet to help out an employee or their family.

We have had a few situations where one of the pilots didn't qualify for some benefit for some reason or the other. In all of those cases that I know of, the company and/or ALPA created a fund and helped them out. If the company won't do it, the pilots should of their own accord. We need to help our own. Right now we are in a situation where we have less flying. Company is doing all it can to prevent laying anyone off. We are all taking a hit on our flight hours/pay as a result, but would it be right to furlough the bottom folks as an alternative? Not to me.

As for schedulers, yes, that is a career position with advancement at my company. I also agree with PCL that the benefits should be there, and, if not, people need to find a way to support that family. It's the right thing to do.

 

[Socal321]

Really?

Tell that to the VP/Director of Crew Resources at any given airline. Do you think he started out there? Odds are he started out as a crew scheduler, or perhaps even lower and worked his way up.

I myself started out as a Crew Scheduler, then Flight Follower, then Dispatcher, then Dispatch Instructor, then Dispatch Supervisor. Then I started flying.

Contrast that with a pilot who started out in the right seat, or at the panel, and advanced one position, (two) and then spent the next 20 years there, with the only change being how many seats were behind him. Sounds like more of a dead end job to me than the scheduling position.

Truth is, neither is a dead-end job, or both are. It all depends on what you make of it. Ed Rensi, former CEO of McDonalds Corp, started out his career slinging burgers. 14 years later, he was the CEO of the company.

Seems to me you lack the vision to see beyond the next paycheck.

Yes I know the guy that is responsible for the future of TSA and Hula's right hand man is a former baggage handler.... you don't have to tell me that. Again being a pro pilot is not the same what was your job. We don't climb the corporate ladder. We are already professionals. Anybody can become a crew scheduler tomorrow.

 

[skydog]

You mean like for a 25 year pilot group to be paid fairly?????

Unlike your crew scheduling job. For us, this is not just a job. It's a career. We don't just collect the checks like you might expect at a McDonalds or some place where you "punch out" where you don't expect anything other than a check. People plan their long term lives on what TSA has to provide and if you're going to do that you obviously will need more from your comapny. You are confusing the services of a screw scheduler with the services of a pilot, which do not compare at all. Crew scheduler equals to a job. Pilot, equals to a career, it's worth more.

Don't really know that the age of the pilot group has to do with anything.

Assuming that the pilots are paid on-time, and at the contractually agreed upon rate, what is "unfair" about how they are paid?

Your employer is not responsible for your well-being in life. That's on your shoulders. They pay you X amount of dollars for Y amount of work each week/month/year. If that is "not enough" to meet your needs, then find a job that will pay you more, or change your circumstances so that you can get by on less. Do it anyway you want to do it, but recognize that the only person responsible for your life is you.

 

[skydog]

A crew scheduler, what a surprise. What's the matter, been called names one too many times? I love how you're using this poor guys case because it's obvious that you do not care at all other than to spread you agenda that employees are minions with no rights. Yes the company can't be doing favors but as you've said for a 1 in a millionth case? Yes it can, when was the last time something like this has happened to TSA? Nobody is expecting anything out of Hulas other than a "fair" and equal contract like any other regional out there. Did you know that TSA is one of the lowest contracts out there? If an owner can't provide for his employees then they shouldn't be in business. TSA pilots deserve to get everything and more. We're not talking about politics here, this is another case of hard working people that are being paid under a substandard contract.

If TSA's pilots are so underpaid, then it ought not be too hard to find a better paying job.

Employees "deserve" nothing more than what they agreed to work for. An employer is responsible for nothing more than paying his employees on time and at the agreed rate. He is not responsible to "provide for his employees." That's the individual's responsibility. Your not owed a certain lifestyle by virtue of your education, job title, or responsibilities. Your paid to do a job. Take that money and do what you want with it. Spend it all on porn and cheetos if you like. But if it's not enough to support your lifestyle, then change jobs, or change lifestyles.

It's a simple message folks. Take responsibility for your own life.

 

[bafanguy]

I would guess a lot of the requirements of these insurance companies are driven by the insurance companies themselves rather than the airlines who do business with them.

And what is more heartless than an insurance company ?

In the end, the situation is what it is. Plan accordingly...it's a jungle out there.

 

[WacoFan]

I would guess a lot of the requirements of these insurance companies are driven by the insurance companies themselves rather than the airlines who do business with them.

And what is more heartless than an insurance company ?

In the end, the situation is what it is. Plan accordingly...it's a jungle out there.

The insurance company doesn't care when people are added. Insurance is a pretty emotionless business that is dependent upon mathematics. If TSA wanted to benefits to start day one the premium wouldn't be significantly different and the insurance company would actually be getting their money 90 days earlier so I don't know why the insurance company would want to delay accepting premium.

Probably the reason for the delay is to make sure all new hires get through training, checkrides and IOE before they are put on the group plan - that way you aren't having to extend COBRA and stuff to everyone that washes out.

 

[kellwolf]

Probably the reason for the delay is to make sure all new hires get through training, checkrides and IOE before they are put on the group plan - that way you aren't having to extend COBRA and stuff to everyone that washes out.

Pinnacle has a 90 day waiting period from your CHECKRIDE. So, other than IOE, the employees have already completed training. I've seen them extend IOE to triple the amount of hours required to get someone through. By the time my insurance at Pinnacle kicked in, I had been there for 8 months.

 

[Socal321]

If TSA's pilots are so underpaid, then it ought not be too hard to find a better paying job.

Employees "deserve" nothing more than what they agreed to work for. An employer is responsible for nothing more than paying his employees on time and at the agreed rate. He is not responsible to "provide for his employees." That's the individual's responsibility. Your not owed a certain lifestyle by virtue of your education, job title, or responsibilities. Your paid to do a job. Take that money and do what you want with it. Spend it all on porn and cheetos if you like. But if it's not enough to support your lifestyle, then change jobs, or change lifestyles.

It's a simple message folks. Take responsibility for your own life.

You are completely not understanding the issue. I doubt you are a pilot as well, at least an airline pilot considering your first sentence. You obviously have no idea how labor relations work. Nobody expects a "life style", they want what industry standard is. If it was for your mentality, we would be working minimum wage.... do you understand?

 

[skinswin34]

If TSA's pilots are so underpaid, then it ought not be too hard to find a better paying job.

(((Employees "deserve" nothing more than what they agreed to work for. An employer is responsible for nothing more than paying his employees on time and at the agreed rate.)))



The "agreed rate" was an agreement untill 2006. Thats where the problem lies there skydog. We aren't trying to re-negotiate an existing contract because we changed our mind. Its long expired.

But that isn't what this thread is about so I digress

 

[staplegun]

I'm a big union supporter and believe very strongly that workers are the back-bone of our economy.

That being said, I agree with the company on this one.

We all know what the rules are when we sign up. "Insurance doesn't start for six months? OK, sign me up..."

This is an unfortunate case of someone 'falling through the cracks' of a certain policy.

Does it suck? YES!

The companies reaction was lacking to say the least - where were his managers?

Your anger should be directed at the unfeeling response of this guys immediate superiors and management, not the insurance company or his company!

In the imortal words of Thomas Hobbes, "The life of man; solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short."

JMHO, YMMV...

Kevin

 

[Velocipede]

Skydog,

Seriously, man, keep talking. You are the best argument for unionization I've seen in a long time.

 

[meritflyer]

Skydog,

Seriously, man, keep talking. You are the best argument for unionization I've seen in a long time.

The issue is pilots are still acting like unionists rather than a business entity which understands the art of negotiation.

JMHO.

 

[Velocipede]

No, the issue is dishonest management that continues to negotiate in bad faith while using tactics like the bankruptcy court to abrogate Union contracts. And worse, yet, the number of pilots who will collude with those managers to ratchet down the earning potential of ALL pilots.

Not only does that include pilots who willingly work for non-Union carriers, but Regional pilots who replace good paying Union jobs without batting an eyelash.

 

[skydog]

Your anger should be directed at the unfeeling response of this guys immediate superiors and management, not the insurance company or his company!
Kevin

Again I ask, why? Why should anger be directed at the employer? Why do people think that the problems people experience in their personal lives should be transftered to the employer? The guy was off duty, off the clock, and at home. By policy his insurance had not yet taken effect. I would guess that the premiums for said policy had yet to be paid. I further venture to guess that the waiting period was to prevent people from taking a job to get the insurance, having some expensive medical procedure done, and then quitting.

The employer bears no more responsibility than anyone else, and much less than he. If he didn't have his own life insurance, that is a shame, but it reflects on the poor planning and lack of responsibility on his part, not evil intent on the part of his employer.

This should be a lesson in being prepared, planning ahead, and taking responsibility for your own life, not an example of eeevilll management.

 

[meritflyer]

No, the issue is dishonest management that continues to negotiate in bad faith while using tactics like the bankruptcy court to abrogate Union contracts. And worse, yet, the number of pilots who will collude with those managers to ratchet down the earning potential of ALL pilots.

Not only does that include pilots who willingly work for non-Union carriers, but Regional pilots who replace good paying Union jobs without batting an eyelash.

My previous statement stands. The union needs to re-evaluate their tactics, period. They simply haven't worked in decades.