Delta Pilots Vote to Authorize Strike by ~95%

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Minnesota_Flyer said:
There actually would be a really interesting (to eggheads like me) question as to whether POTUS would have the power to end a strike in this circumstance. These bankruptcy contract cancellations simply aren't contemplated by RLA. RLA says that when a contract ends (or when negotiating a first contract) the parties have to negotiate in good faith to a contract. If they reach impasse, then there's a cooling off period. Then the union may strike, if POTUS doesn't order further mediation with NMB. Here, there is a valid contract, which the company is seeking to throw out in bankruptcy. So big open question on how RLA applies. As you've heard, Delta thinks that pilots can't strike because there would be an existing contract (imposed by the court). But if that has any truth, then it also would be true that POTUS' power to order mediation also wouldn't be triggered.

In any case, I doubt GWB would stop a Delta strike. First, Delta is not as big as AA and a strike would not have the national impact that an AA strike would have. Second, I think Washington has figured out that the airlines simply need to sort themselves out, and I would bet that Washington is largely going to stay out of it until the dust settles.

But I'm usually wrong.

MF

Did you know that Delta has the most passenger enplanements of any airline except SWA?

KATL has the most enplanements of any passenger hub in the world? DAL controls like 90% of that hub traffic?

The president may not get involved...but the national impact...will be substantial.
 
aloft said:
Anyone care to wager that that "something" comes in the form of an Executive Order?

No, I was hoping for something more simpler, that the Bankruptcy Judge will not allow Delta to tear of the Union Contracts.....
 
B767Driver said:
Did you know that Delta has the most passenger enplanements of any airline except SWA?

KATL has the most enplanements of any passenger hub in the world? DAL controls like 90% of that hub traffic?

The president may not get involved...but the national impact...will be substantial.
I'm just gonna go ahead and refer you back to the last sentence of my post.

Minnesota_Flyer said:
But I'm usually wrong.

:insane:
 
Doug Taylor said:
Am I, personally, the one that pulled off jets with CASM's less than $.10 to put on $0.25-plus CASM jets that passengers had a strong preference against?

Off topic.... I would be curious ( I really don't know :) ) which airframes?
 
Doug Taylor said:
Don't cross your fingers for me, I appreciate it, but I'm a lot more than just a pilot.

Delta goes away, so be it, it's not my choice but if they're going to trash a 70 year old company over what amounts to a few weeks of revenue, there's nothing I can do so I don't worry about it.

If the big boat sinks, I'll do something else. Being an airline pilot is a fun job, but it's by no means my life nor do I define myself by it. I did back in my regional days, but I had a lot of focus but as I matured, I broadened my interests greatly and it became a fun way to make money and a way to travel cheaply to Europe to explore.

Not that I'm some Joan of Arc on a religious quest that I MUST fly airplanes so I have to protect that ability by all costs.

Umm, no. Besides, I still have my private! :)

I put a lot into the performance of my job, but if I'm not going to be paid appropriately or treated professionally because the $1000/hr consultants think that our skills are valueless, well, later skater!.

If they force a strike, we strike and the company goes away, well, wasn't my fault! The sun will rise, I'll play 'house dad' and build my home business and stay off the 'gotta be an employee'-grid because being an employee ain't where it's at in the new American economy.

The company knew the risk when they started the whole game.



Great words.
 
Doug Taylor said:
... build my home business and stay off the 'gotta be an employee'-grid because being an employee ain't where it's at in the new American economy.
Someone's been reading rich dad poor dad.
 
TechFlyer said:
Off topic but I heard Rich Dad Poor Dad...a great book for ANYONE to read.

There was actually a discussion about that here about 3 months ago. Sorry, I am too lazy to do a search on that for you. :)
 
Mr_Creepy said:
Telling ALPA to go back to work with a PEB is pretty risky.

Ignoring a PEB would be suicide.

However, you need to know that the PEB would only establish another 30-day cooling off period after which a final 30-day cooling off period might be ordered. After that, there is NOTHING in the Railway Labor Act that could deny the parties their rights to enter self help. Were it not so, the Contracts entered into under the RLA would not be legal, as they would be, in effect, a legalized form of slavery.


It would really do folks a lot of good to study the RLA. We live under it, and it has a great deal of influence over how our work rules and pay and benefits are determined - - it's our life. Knowing it also helps keep you from saying stupid stuff about airline contracts and self-help and such. :)




.
 
These talks are complicated by the fact that they are not under the auspices of the RLA...but rather the bankruptcy code. The CVG paper this morning made mention that the precedent of a tranport labor strike under bankruptcy proceedings has not been set...and the legality of a strike might be determined in the US Supreme Court.

One side seems to think that RLA laws prevail...the other side says no. Independent counsels does not know.

Make no doubt...shopping for a judge is occuring. No doubt you can find a judge to rule in your favor and rule an injunction...a temporary restraining order. But that still doesn't settle the matter...a TRO is just that...temporary...and a decision from a court still must be made.

I say standby for a strike...a TRO minutes into it...and months of legal wrangling. Is this the type of company you really want to work for? Is this the type of industry you really want to get involved with? I've only been in the industry 13 years...and have been through 1 strike...1 pending...and numerous contentious negotiations.

If you're going to be an airline pilot...grow some thick skin and be ready to fight for the job you love. It's not for wimps.
 
"If you're going to be an airline pilot...grow some thick skin and be ready to fight for the job you love. It's not for wimps"

I'll add, if you want to improve your lot, you gotta be ready to walk away from the career at any time.

What you said should be included in every flight academies website along with a link to JC.

Of course, there's no money in that, so it won't happen.
 
DE727UPS said:
"If you're going to be an airline pilot...grow some thick skin and be ready to fight for the job you love. It's not for wimps"

I'll add, if you want to improve your lot, you gotta be ready to walk away from the career at any time.

What you said should be included in every flight academies website along with a link to JC.

Of course, there's no money in that, so it won't happen.


Amen.

And the threats are everywhere anymore...and it's making the job very difficult to enjoy. Of course, diabetes, an erratic EKG, a terrorist attack, a new LCC start up flying 757's for $25 per hour could strike any of us tomorrow...and any of these would be as bad or worse than a strike.

The profession used to hold small assurances against some of the above...such as long term disability if you couldn't fly...i.e. diabetes diagnosis at age 35...you receive 65% of your pay until age 60...then a full retirement. This allowed the medical risk to be managed for a professional pilot. Now...no disability at all...unless you meet the SS definition of disabled...which pretty much means you are a vegetable. This chances of qualifying for a Class 1 medical all the way to age 60 or beyond is not extremely high. This is why scope is so important. It's not just the airplanes...it's benefits such as above that are being eliminated from the profession as the majors lose their flying to smaller outfits. Most guys probably don't even realize the magnitude of benefits the profession has lost thru the lost flying at the majors.

Since 9/11 most guys have come to the realization that something dramatic could occur at any moment...eliminating what's left of their profession...and driving guys to new careers that are profitable, challenging and enjoying, if not exponentially more secure.

I never thought I'd envy a freight driver (having been one myself I know how hard it is) but you've got about the last safe haven in the industry. But then again, who knows what a bad case of the bird flu would do to you guys as well?
 
"who knows what a bad case of the bird flu would do to you guys as well"

You're assuming I give a crap...
 
B767Driver said:
Amen.

And the threats are everywhere anymore...and it's making the job very difficult to enjoy. Of course, diabetes, an erratic EKG, a terrorist attack, a new LCC start up flying 757's for $25 per hour could strike any of us tomorrow...and any of these would be as bad or worse than a strike.

The profession used to hold small assurances against some of the above...such as long term disability if you couldn't fly...i.e. diabetes diagnosis at age 35...you receive 65% of your pay until age 60...then a full retirement. This allowed the medical risk to be managed for a professional pilot. Now...no disability at all...unless you meet the SS definition of disabled...which pretty much means you are a vegetable. This chances of qualifying for a Class 1 medical all the way to age 60 or beyond is not extremely high. This is why scope is so important. It's not just the airplanes...it's benefits such as above that are being eliminated from the profession as the majors lose their flying to smaller outfits. Most guys probably don't even realize the magnitude of benefits the profession has lost thru the lost flying at the majors.

Since 9/11 most guys have come to the realization that something dramatic could occur at any moment...eliminating what's left of their profession...and driving guys to new careers that are profitable, challenging and enjoying, if not exponentially more secure.

I never thought I'd envy a freight driver (having been one myself I know how hard it is) but you've got about the last safe haven in the industry. But then again, who knows what a bad case of the bird flu would do to you guys as well?


Just when I thought this thread was spiraling into the literary sepia being spewed by the high-school a.net trolls, a beacon of hope.
Perfect post!
 
Unions aren't perfect but I shudder to think what my job would be like without one. Or this career, for that matter.

One more quote, and then I'll jump in...

I'll make this simple. Do you fly a line? Do you work for an airline in any capacity?

If the answer is no, then you are taking out of the same place your digested food departs your body. You can throw theroetical BS around all day and all it's gonna do is get the walls brown.

Talk to me after you've done your 6th leg at the end of your SCHEDULED 15 hour duty day and have a 4am show the next morning.

If I have no children, does that forbid me from ever discussing about parents and parenting?
If I have no family, does that forbid me from ever discussing about family issues?
If I was never faced with a death threat,does that forbid from ever discussing about death threats?
If I never been in France/Germany/Russia does that forbid me from me from ever discussing about these places?

You get my point. The answer is NO. It is asinine to hear some say "You never experienced XYZ, therefore you can't possibly give an opinion on XYZ!!!" This whole thread is based how some management seems to screw up a lot. And how they are evil greedy bastards who make lots of mistakes. So tell me this? If I can't comment on a pilots job because I never flew professionaly, why wont the same standard apply to any of you guys? Why can't I forbid you from talking about management and how they operate? Your argument holds no water man.

Not only does it hold no credibility but you are missing one *KEY* factor. Everyone, go re-read the two quoted texts above. And you will notice something. Something very subtle is hidin in the message. Can you guess what it is? Come on? Take a stab at it? Yeah, thats right.. Yep, it's CHOICE. It is your choice. It is your free-unrestricted-path in life. You choose to make that choice. No one else. You have to deal with the problems that follow your choice. My father has always said to me that life is hard, and never evenly devided. You will face very tough decisions and tough times in life. You make the choice, and you will have to deal with the choice you make.

One person, might decide to become an artist. And starve or become the next picasso. Another person might pursue a life in marine biology. Another might want to become a teacher, and be faced with a career of making 37k yearly with more work you take home. My answer? It is your choice. You know the risks, if you don't you should to the research. Most if not all of you knew, that the job would be tough, especially the first couple of years. Most of you knew that it would cost you an arm and a leg to get through your training. And your soul just so you can get the position in a regional airline. But it was the choice you made. Deal with the results.

If you love flying soo much, that you are willing to sacrifice soo much, than expect to deal with these things. Expect to be hungery at times, or out of work. Expect to have long trips and being gone from home. Don't tell me how "I have kids to feed, and bills to pay." God, I have those things too. Yet, I take responsiblity for the choices I make in life along with my career.

You probably did expect a paycheck in the area of 100k a year or more after several years. But now, the business is failing. And you are barely making ends meet. Who's fault is that? Noones but your own. If you expect to be in the same career or job for the rest of your life, you are only kidding yourself. Things come and go, brace yourself. Things are in constant change. Remember the quote "Nothing is constant except change?" It doesn't take a idiot to know that sooner or later, your line of work will die, or evolve into something else. Pilots might be replaced by teleportation devices. Or underground subway systems that travel at 2-3-or even 400 miles an hour... at a cheaper rate, and possibly carrying 2 or 3 times more passengers. Everything is a possibility.

You have to stick with the choices you make. You can't blame others for it. Look at Doug, I can bet that he already has an idea for a home business. I bet that not only does he have idea, but he has put in the time and effort into research AND possible development of his business. I can also bet that Doug has an emergency fund incase something happens at his air line. He isn't sitting around moping and bitching about the state of the airline business. He might be, but he is also preparing for the worst scenerio.
 
How about corporate? That's still a safe haven no?

Thank god, i know some people in the corporate world. Good family friend!:rawk:
 
JohnGalt said:
But now, the business is failing. And you are barely making ends meet. Who's fault is that? Noones but your own.

You know, you've talked out of your ass a lot, but this one takes the cake.

Yeah, it's the employee's fault. It's the fault of the guys who show up, do their job, do it well, and then go home. They don't pick the pricing system. They don't pick the route structure. All they do is fly the airplanes where they are told to fly them, and they do this day in day out safely.

Yeah, they're to blame for everything. :sarcasm:

If you're smoking crack they are. Or if you've gotten the frontal lobotomy that seems to be required to work in corporate American management these days.

Everyone talks about the success of Southwest. Know what one of the things they seem to have which so many other airlines don't have is? An attitude from management that you do not treat your employees like crap.
 
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