Delta pilots Picket at ATL

MDPilot said:
I just love it when college students know so much more about the realities of this industry than we do, don't you Doug? :sarcasm:
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MD, you and I are 'legacy' pilots, what the pilots at the LCC's...Wait, we're all fairly LCC, well the pilots at the new airlines, wait, one of the 'new' airlines has been around since before I was born and the other one is losing money. Err, let's just rename a 757 to the "Embraer 1194" carrying up to 194 passengers in a regional transcontinental flights and Ray Neidl will rejoice! :)

(Highly sarcastic, folks, I'm just making a post-workout joke)
 
Gotta start somewhere, jackass.

ScareBusA320 said:
Hey but at least I'm not Chris Ford right???
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Sorry we all can't be starry eyed like you. Find one post where I've said I'd work for low (insulting) pay? My only pet peeve is when people say the words "can't live on" coupled with "only" and then finally "$75,000 a year" when 60+% of American families "manage" to do it. Sorry, I'm just a lowly CFI and I am able to barely live on (note: not comfortably, which would be a modifier to use if you were going to say the "I can't live on" phrase) approximately $16k a year (without mommy and daddy's help, unlike most other college kids). Seeing people making 5 times as much money complaining about living wages is akin to hearing baseball players say that an average salary of $700k is not enough. However, this does not mean I don't understand where they're coming from. I realize that kids will suck up money and it's fairly easy to get acclimated to living off of $100k and then a sudden paycut might force a sale of a house (which is bound to leave a bitter taste in one's mouth) and/or "roughing it" but sometimes people act as if they're the first person to have to take a paycut. It's unfortunate, yes, and I don't wish it on anyone at all, and I think it's a horrible thing that it's the state of the industry, but it's also happening in other industries (IT specifically, with outsourcing being a major problem).
This might shock and surprise those who think they know how I think and reason, but I think the only real solution for this is action by the pilots. A weak union does nobody no good, the union needs to fight tooth and nail for every inch, and rather than threatening to strike, it'd be nice to see a group stand up to management. Now, understand this... I'm talking from the perspective of an outsider. I stand in a position where I will not lose my job or starve, and I'll be the first to acknowledge that I don't know how the airline side of the industry works, and that by asking these questions that I ask, and stating my opinions, I'm able to grasp better at what the true causes of the strife between mgmt and pilots is all about.

So I'm terribly sorry that I don't rub you the right way. Maybe once I become a "legacy" pilot, you'll come up and ask me questions about my super big B737 while I'm trying to enjoy some Burger King during my first sit-down meal of the week. And I appreciate you interjecting me into a conversation in which I have not posted and really didn't care to be a part of.
 
Chris_Ford said:
Sorry we all can't be starry eyed like you. Find one post where I've said I'd work for low (insulting) pay? My only pet peeve is when people say the words "can't live on" coupled with "only" and then finally "$75,000 a year" when 60+% of American families "manage" to do it. Sorry, I'm just a lowly CFI and I am able to barely live on (note: not comfortably, which would be a modifier to use if you were going to say the "I can't live on" phrase) approximately $16k a year (without mommy and daddy's help, unlike most other college kids). Seeing people making 5 times as much money complaining about living wages is akin to hearing baseball players say that an average salary of $700k is not enough. However, this does not mean I don't understand where they're coming from. I realize that kids will suck up money and it's fairly easy to get acclimated to living off of $100k and then a sudden paycut might force a sale of a house (which is bound to leave a bitter taste in one's mouth) and/or "roughing it" but sometimes people act as if they're the first person to have to take a paycut. It's unfortunate, yes, and I don't wish it on anyone at all, and I think it's a horrible thing that it's the state of the industry, but it's also happening in other industries (IT specifically, with outsourcing being a major problem).
This might shock and surprise those who think they know how I think and reason, but I think the only real solution for this is action by the pilots. A weak union does nobody no good, the union needs to fight tooth and nail for every inch, and rather than threatening to strike, it'd be nice to see a group stand up to management. Now, understand this... I'm talking from the perspective of an outsider. I stand in a position where I will not lose my job or starve, and I'll be the first to acknowledge that I don't know how the airline side of the industry works, and that by asking these questions that I ask, and stating my opinions, I'm able to grasp better at what the true causes of the strife between mgmt and pilots is all about.

So I'm terribly sorry that I don't rub you the right way. Maybe once I become a "legacy" pilot, you'll come up and ask me questions about my super big B737 while I'm trying to enjoy some Burger King during my first sit-down meal of the week. And I appreciate you interjecting me into a conversation in which I have not posted and really didn't care to be a part of.
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Doooode take just a momment to get over yourself. I never said that you had SJS and would fly an A320 for $30k or less. MDpilot sarcastically said he loves how college kids think they know more then professional pilots currently in the industry. So I made reference to you for that sole reason because you can come across as a pompous know it all on here. But what do I know I'm only a card carrying democrat hippe at Berkley double majoring in poly sci & philosophy who is pre law. John H. your my hero!

Lastly dude...I live in SF man my dad is a United f/o on the 757/767. Even he is like that kid is crazy when I told him that you said UA would post a 10b profit!
 
ScareBusA320 said:
Irregardless the term "legacy" carrier is still a valid industry term.

:D
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I see where you are coming from the term "Legacy" is really only used by the press when they cover the airline industry & is really not used by rank & file pilots.

As to the salary, what angers some pilots would be working for an airline that pays $30,000 & stays at that salary range, which is different from the starting salary at some airlines, that starts at $30,000 & eventually gets raised for every year in service.
 
Doug Taylor said:
A couple of things, you've got to drop the 'legacy' word because it doesn't mean jack.
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It serves the purpose of delineating carriers who became established in a regulated, protected environment from carriers launched post deregulation. I'd put SWA in the category of non-legacy since they were just ahead of their time. It also denotes airlines with (as Carl Sagan used to say) "billions and billions" in debt and other obligations.
 
MDPilot said:
I just love it when college students know so much more about the realities of this industry than we do, don't you Doug? :sarcasm:
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I admit to knowing very little about aviation compared to a seasoned pilot.

but my point is simple...young cfi's who don't have the baggage necessary to inhibit them from taking a "lower than some pilot's respect" salary WILL continue to sign the contracts. Therefore, yelling at young cfi's to stop taking the jobs WILL NOT work. So, a new solution to the airline problem IS necessary...
 
Purdue_Pilot said:
I admit to knowing very little about aviation compared to a seasoned pilot.

but my point is simple...young cfi's who don't have the baggage necessary to inhibit them from taking a "lower than some pilot's respect" salary WILL continue to sign the contracts. Therefore, yelling at young cfi's to stop taking the jobs WILL NOT work. So, a new solution to the airline problem IS necessary...
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We have seen the enemy and he looks like us...:mad:
 
I think the problem lies in the veil of secrecy that surrounds the aviation profession. Honestly, I think if ALPA ran ads (like the ATCers did last year) on CNN and Airport CNN, it might be informative to the public, finding out that their pilot is not being paid $250k a year, and that some airlines hire low experience individuals to save costs.
 
Chris_Ford said:
I think the problem lies in the veil of secrecy that surrounds the aviation profession. Honestly, I think if ALPA ran ads (like the ATCers did last year) on CNN and Airport CNN, it might be informative to the public, finding out that their pilot is not being paid $250k a year, and that some airlines hire low experience individuals to save costs.
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Hey Chris...your the Chief Flight Instructor at Purdue. Perhaps you and the other CFI's can pull a "code red" on Purdue pilot so that he can get his priorities in order!

:sarcasm:
 
Hey! It almost happened at the university I attended. There was going to be an instructor strike until the head of the department started threatening to sabotage the leaders of the strike who were undergrads....and that pretty much shut all strike rumors down. And instructors there are still working under strict strict strict conditions for dirt cheap to my knowledge.
 
Chris_Ford said:
I think the problem lies in the veil of secrecy that surrounds the aviation profession. Honestly, I think if ALPA ran ads (like the ATCers did last year) on CNN and Airport CNN, it might be informative to the public, finding out that their pilot is not being paid $250k a year, and that some airlines hire low experience individuals to save costs.
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The airlines do not hire low experience individuals to save costs.

As far as a pilot making $250k per year, or $25k per year, that is nobody's business....

If ALPA feels that a carrier is hiring low time pilots, then it is their duty to report this action to the FAA....
 
KLB said:
Hey! It almost happened at the university I attended. There was going to be an instructor strike until the head of the department started threatening to sabotage the leaders of the strike who were undergrads....and that pretty much shut all strike rumors down. And instructors there are still working under strict strict strict conditions for dirt cheap to my knowledge.
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Sounds dramatic. I'd like to hear the full story on that one.

What could the head of the department do to "sabotage" them, besides fire them?
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
Hey Chris...your the Chief Flight Instructor at Purdue. Perhaps you and the other CFI's can pull a "code red" on Purdue pilot so that he can get his priorities in order!
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I'm the Chief Flight Instructor at Purdue? Cool! Where's my $70k salary? :)

And Pengy, by lowering minimums, they're able to open the pool up to those willing to work for less, no?
 
Chris_Ford said:
And Pengy, by lowering minimums, they're able to open the pool up to those willing to work for less, no?
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I don't think you have the knowledge to make assumptions like that. Oh, and make sure you eat breakfast tomorrow. No sh*t pie for lunch.
 
Purdue_Pilot said:
I admit to knowing very little about aviation compared to a seasoned pilot.

but my point is simple...young cfi's who don't have the baggage necessary to inhibit them from taking a "lower than some pilot's respect" salary WILL continue to sign the contracts. Therefore, yelling at young cfi's to stop taking the jobs WILL NOT work. So, a new solution to the airline problem IS necessary...
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ok, so you've presented a non ending problem.. what is YOUR solution?

*when one poses a problem, one should also pose a solution...confusious say

really, i wanna know.. not to start a flame war or debate or what not.. but thinking outside the box, maybe some of you youngin's who aren't in the industry yet have an idea or solution that would actually solve the problem? hmmm...inquiring minds and all that!
 
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