mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
Kristie said:
:rawk:
DOH - sorry, Doug. I couldn't resist.
Delta pilots Picket at ATL
- Thread starter n57flyguy
- Start date
:rawk:
DOH - sorry, Doug. I couldn't resist.
mpenguin1
Well-Known Member
Kristie said:
Kristie
Depends on the company, when I was with an airline they had a round of layoffs, when I did the math for my volunteer layoff package, it would have resulted with me receiving a check for 10 months.
They paid for vacation time
1/4 points for every day of sick leave
X number of points for every year in the company
Points for other stuff.
Net result would have been a 10 month paycheck for me.
Not saying that the Delta boys are right or wrong, but, the severance package is not exactly abnormal.....
I was more or less saying that I (as an individual) am ok if DAL pilots have to go on strike....mgmt keeps saying that if the pilots go on strike, then it'll be the end of delta and so that's really what i meant by that.. could have rephrased it, didn't.shinysideup said:
mrivc211
Well-Known Member
Anger....just down right anger.
Gee little boys and girls......I bet you still want to fly big shiny jets for close to nothing because you can survive on $50,000. Because thats what the market demands right?
I recently jumpseated on a flight home on a regional carrier, and the crew brought up the issue of a possible union. I won't go into detail, but all I can say is simply utter stupidity at their lack of knowledge. They were just a couple of young kids with a blind fold covering their faces with regards to reality.
I don't hope for a day when this will all turn around. Why? Because I know there WILL be a day for this to turn around. We will turn this industry around.
Gee little boys and girls......I bet you still want to fly big shiny jets for close to nothing because you can survive on $50,000. Because thats what the market demands right?
I recently jumpseated on a flight home on a regional carrier, and the crew brought up the issue of a possible union. I won't go into detail, but all I can say is simply utter stupidity at their lack of knowledge. They were just a couple of young kids with a blind fold covering their faces with regards to reality.
I don't hope for a day when this will all turn around. Why? Because I know there WILL be a day for this to turn around. We will turn this industry around.
Aero_Engineer
Well-Known Member
mrivc211 said:
You are damn right, we will turn this industry around, be positive people we are in this all together and we gotta stay united.
mpenguin1
Well-Known Member
Kristie said:
The 6-12 month severance package is not out the norm, well, maybe 12 months is a stretch. Could depend what is in the package, some of the people may have to sign a non-competitive form, where they can not work for a competitor to Delta for unspecified time frame.....
http://www.airportbusiness.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=3&id=5439
adreamer
Well-Known Member
mmm.....
An interesting coversation this afternoon I had.(sounds like Yoda) One of DPE invited me for lunch. During the conversation, I asked about NWA situation after found out that he is very high on 742 seniority list at NWA. He said that pilots would strike if court approves NWA management proposal. About Delta & NWA, in his opinion, Delta would go out business earlier than NWA due to 5th freedom right. NWA can't sell this particular right to any airlines. His last word to me was - "DO NOT EVER CROSS PICKET LINE !!!"
adreamer
An interesting coversation this afternoon I had.(sounds like Yoda) One of DPE invited me for lunch. During the conversation, I asked about NWA situation after found out that he is very high on 742 seniority list at NWA. He said that pilots would strike if court approves NWA management proposal. About Delta & NWA, in his opinion, Delta would go out business earlier than NWA due to 5th freedom right. NWA can't sell this particular right to any airlines. His last word to me was - "DO NOT EVER CROSS PICKET LINE !!!"
adreamer
FlyChicaga
Vintage Restoration
Aero_Engineer said:
Wait, on December 22nd you said:
Aero_Engineer said:
and
So is the turn-around plan going to involved making only $30,000 a year to fly as an A320 FO?
http://www.jetcareers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22853
We aren't going to turn anything around if we don't have some self-respect.
shinysideup
New Member
A slight edit to my prior post after talking with friends....
quote: me
"A question for the masses... What stops pilots from negotiating their contracts, but also negotiating with MNGNT on things such as executive contracts.... IE. "A person in management cannot have a severance package more then 2 weeks pay."
We are pilots. We are paid to fly from point A to point B. Thats it.
quote: me
"The industry was once run by pilot, and now that the lawyers and insurance companies have their hands in the pockets, it seems to be down hill. It seems the airlines have become fat on top, and need to be put back in check. Pilots are generally smart people, their input should be valued, and listened to."
Once again we are pilots, not accountants, not anything else. Problem is that the companies have made their money on our backs, with no real incentive over the last 5 years-ish. They are still fat on top. Disregard my suggestion, just another rant.
quote: me
"A question for the masses... What stops pilots from negotiating their contracts, but also negotiating with MNGNT on things such as executive contracts.... IE. "A person in management cannot have a severance package more then 2 weeks pay."
We are pilots. We are paid to fly from point A to point B. Thats it.
quote: me
"The industry was once run by pilot, and now that the lawyers and insurance companies have their hands in the pockets, it seems to be down hill. It seems the airlines have become fat on top, and need to be put back in check. Pilots are generally smart people, their input should be valued, and listened to."
Once again we are pilots, not accountants, not anything else. Problem is that the companies have made their money on our backs, with no real incentive over the last 5 years-ish. They are still fat on top. Disregard my suggestion, just another rant.
Aero_Engineer
Well-Known Member
Remember I said that "I have a feeling this is going to change", and it will change but at this current situation if you,me or someone else does not fly that jet for 30K someone else will, Trust me on that one.
So the question is would you rather sit in the back and don't fly for the company and watch someone else who is less qualified than you get that job?
I am still sticking to my word, if someone offers me to fly an A-320 for 30K I will do it in a heart beat but I'll have some patience and wait, once the situation is better and the company is doing good I'll ask for a raise and at that point it is much more cost effective for them to give me a raise rather than fire me and hire someone else who they have to train from scratch.
And when I say let's stick together I mean let's not give up and go on with our lives doing something else, THIS WILL CHANGE sooner or later.
I am not raedy to spend all that time get trained and get all my licenses and end up as a carpenter or an office worker like as we know a lot of UA pilots are doing right as we speak.
So the question is would you rather sit in the back and don't fly for the company and watch someone else who is less qualified than you get that job?
I am still sticking to my word, if someone offers me to fly an A-320 for 30K I will do it in a heart beat but I'll have some patience and wait, once the situation is better and the company is doing good I'll ask for a raise and at that point it is much more cost effective for them to give me a raise rather than fire me and hire someone else who they have to train from scratch.
And when I say let's stick together I mean let's not give up and go on with our lives doing something else, THIS WILL CHANGE sooner or later.
I am not raedy to spend all that time get trained and get all my licenses and end up as a carpenter or an office worker like as we know a lot of UA pilots are doing right as we speak.
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
Aero_Engineer said:
First of all Armen...don't you think maybe in hindsight it's a bit tacky to come out and say that you would do a guys job for cheap. In at thread about possible strike and liquidation of an airline and said person livelihood and income?
Lastly..what incentive does management have to give you a raise when they are firing guys making $150k anuually and once upon a time you were more then willing to fly that same A320 for $30k. When in your own words you said there will always be someone who would fly for cheaper. So tell me why management would be willing to give a • bout you why are you so special?
adreamer
Well-Known Member
It is a Huge problem for anyone who like to do your job for half of your salary.
Aero, like Max said, there are always someone else who fly the right seat for cheaper price. In the sense, the professional pilot job is becoming "new form of slavery" if this kind of thinking continues. If nobody is standing up to management, it would become "The rich is getting richer, the poor is getting poorer."
adreamer
perpetual
Well-Known Member
Well, it seems that guys like Armen are those that will take the jobs for
lower money.
No offense intended, but Armen, it is your line of reasoning that is bringing
down the payscale.
If you (addressing everyone, not only Armen) want to make a change, then
the change cannot come in the form of half-efforts.
People need to refuse work that does not pay according to their
professional worth at their particular skill level. Granted, this may be hard
to do for those who are in the industry and have been so with everything
to lose.
What I speak of applies more to those of this generation of pilots with eyes
set toward that shiney metal flying tube.
Armen, by accepting the job for lower pay shows the company that you do
not really value your time or professional skillset.
Maximillian_Jenius is correct that management would likely not give a rats
@$$ about your "salary increase request". At that point you have already
set the stage for managements' perceived value of your's and other pilots'
worth.
If people truely wanted to gain back some of the "glamour" or the
"payscale", drastic change is needed from the point of the prospective
employee.
In relation; I highly doubt that you see doctors, lawyers, or other
professionals whom may have hundreds of other peoples' lives on the line
selling themselves short as you do with today's pilot populace.
Some may think that I speak of a utopian world where everyone is actually
looking after each other, and you may be right, but heres to hoping that
we will actually unify as a group and force employers to pay our worth.
-Perpetual
Aero_Engineer
Well-Known Member
So basically you are saying that you won't accept the job, let's say even I back off and don't accept the job. You just said it, " There are others who will eventually accept the job" and we will be left out.
I agree with every single word you guys say about how we should not give up our proffesionalism and dignity flying a 320 for 30K but you have to understand that industries all depend on the economy of this country and if you haven't noticed we are in deep sh..t now, we are borrowing $1B a day from China.
If you think it is just aviation, no every one else is suffering now. A very good family friend of ours just got fired from a health care provider becuase another pediatrician was willing to do his job for 80K, doesn't that suck. The guy is 20 year experienced doctor and he is geeting fired beacuse he does not wanna accept a pay cut.
It would be good if every one would strike and not accept flyig jobs for cheap, and let's say the company would increase te pay. But here is the catch IF THE COMPANY IS NOT MAKING MONEY HOW DOYOU EXPECT THEM TO PAY YOU. Sooner or later they will go away and liquidate because they could not pay their pilots. So would you be more happy with no jobs at all or a job that pays 30K with a potential of somehow increasing the pay.
I agree with every single word you guys say about how we should not give up our proffesionalism and dignity flying a 320 for 30K but you have to understand that industries all depend on the economy of this country and if you haven't noticed we are in deep sh..t now, we are borrowing $1B a day from China.
If you think it is just aviation, no every one else is suffering now. A very good family friend of ours just got fired from a health care provider becuase another pediatrician was willing to do his job for 80K, doesn't that suck. The guy is 20 year experienced doctor and he is geeting fired beacuse he does not wanna accept a pay cut.
It would be good if every one would strike and not accept flyig jobs for cheap, and let's say the company would increase te pay. But here is the catch IF THE COMPANY IS NOT MAKING MONEY HOW DOYOU EXPECT THEM TO PAY YOU. Sooner or later they will go away and liquidate because they could not pay their pilots. So would you be more happy with no jobs at all or a job that pays 30K with a potential of somehow increasing the pay.