Delta pilots Picket at ATL

Aero_Engineer said:
No matter how much you guys fantasize about how every single pilot should walk off the negotiating table if it is not the pay they want, It Ain't Gonna Happen.
Most of the airlines that we have now somehow cut their pilots wages, Have they walk off or have they said F*** you AS or UA or DL or some other airline? No they have accepted it and they are still flying.
You won't ever be able to change this, there will always be someone like me who will consider taking the 30K job and also will have a side job as a private teacher to make a comfortable living.
You don't wanna take the job, well tough love sit there and cry over the fact that I took it and now there is nothing for you to fly except am old rusty 172 with a student who hardly speaks English or is so hard to taech that sometimes you just wanna choke him in that tiny cockpit.
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Wow...Armen. So you'd probably stay with your girlfriend if she cheated on you repeatedly as well right? Just because if you left her, well she'd just go out and find someone new right? And there is always someone new who is more then willing to take your spot right. Probably not though right because you have self respect right? So what happened to it concerning this topic???

:mad:
 
Aero_Engineer said:
Thank you, at least someone understands the facts using logic not so hot blooded and how we "PILOTS" are the best and have to be paid the most! It is just a job servicing others as it was mentioned earlier. If you don't do it someone else WILL!!!!!
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Oh really? I'd like to see someone learn and understand one of the most complex and sophisticated machines out there. Takeoff in close to zero visibility 600 RVR. Encounter thunderstorms enroute, have to deviate left and right using ciritcal fuel. Make life ending decision for dozens if not hundreds of people. Then deal with an engine failure, lose half your hydraulic system, have to free fall the gear down, run checklist after checklist, cross your T's and dot your I's. Shoot an approach single engine, knowing full well that its either you get it on this one or everyone dies, because theres no gas to go around, and the risk of going around on one engine close to the ground heavy to too great, bringing it down to minimums and greasing it on the runway.

Yeah...........my ass**the avg joe shmoe can do that.
 
Aero_Engineer said:
Understand the fact that I am against that too but there are only a couple of managers on hand and thousands of pilots flying for the company, so sooner or later they will run out of money, look at what happened to ENRON were their employees treated fairly? NO Did the management get big fat bonuses? YES. It is a capitalistic country and you have to find a way to survive.
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Describe exactly how you plan on making a living, or even "Surviving," as you say" on 30k a year. I do it, but I am single, no kids, no child support, no etc. And I am flying a C-402, not an A320, I would expect pay to progress with my career. (since your slow I will spell it out for you... BIGGER PLANE = BIGGER $$$)

Just for fun... 32k flying a 402@7210lbs. If weight and pay were related, when I go to fly an A320 (max takeoff weight around 170,000ish Lbs.) I should make $754,500ish a year. Not bad for first year pay. :sarcasm:

:no sarcasm:
You don't know any better. If we flew A320s for 30k, this hypothetical airline management paying you would laugh all the way to the bank while they shove it up your.... Way to be a professional.
 
Purdue_Pilot said:
Hopefully you veteran pilots can teach us the ropes of the unions to secure our future. If not, we'll enjoy those shiny jets as long as financially possible...
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Here is your first lesson, buy flight sim 2006 for your computer, there's lots of shinny jets on that. second, don't • your self out for 30k take some pride man, You and all the rest of the rich Purdue and riddle brats are f******cking up this industry for the rest of us with your sjs.
 
Aero_Engineer said:
Thank you, at least someone understands the facts using logic not so hot blooded and how we "PILOTS" are the best and have to be paid the most! It is just a job servicing others as it was mentioned earlier. If you don't do it someone else WILL!!!!!
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Sorry buddy, but I don't think you have the slightest idea what it's like to be an airline pilot, or any kind of professional pilot for that matter. You're right about one thing, flying is the fun part of the job. It's overseeing the daily ins and outs of the operation where we really earn our money. The pilots are the coordination point between the ramp, the cabin crew, dispatch, ATC, management, the FAA, and the passengers. Everything goes through the pilots. You can only cut pay so much before the quality of the people you get starts to decline drastically. Sadly, your 30k/yr to fly an airbus isn't too far off the mark. Look at the first year pay at Continental and some of the other "majors".
 
Guys, guys, guys...
I may be close to becoming a professional Engineer but i am nothing close to becoming a professional pilot.
To be honest with all of you, I thought over it actually when I was practicing short landings today and yes you are right.
You can't find someone that respects this profession more than I do, I don't think there is anyone crazier than me who goes to LAX to just have breakfast and watch flight crews pass by.
The problem is even if we all think the same way and fight against the whole problem, as you said there are people who will go get hired at CO and fly a shiny 737 for only $30.00/hr hell that is one dollar more than a Horizon FO on his first year makes.
I may be dreaming now, I don't even know that I'll succesfully become a pilot in future but if NWA is actually ready to outsource flying jobs WHAT WILL HAPPEN? I really want someone to explain that for me.
By the way I love debating over stuff so I hope noone will take it personally, I love this industry as equal or even more tahn some of you guys.
 
mrivc211 said:
Oh really? I'd like to see someone learn and understand one of the most complex and sophisticated machines out there. Takeoff in close to zero visibility 600 RVR. Encounter thunderstorms enroute, have to deviate left and right using ciritcal fuel. Make life ending decision for dozens if not hundreds of people. Then deal with an engine failure, lose half your hydraulic system, have to free fall the gear down, run checklist after checklist, cross your T's and dot your I's. Shoot an approach single engine, knowing full well that its either you get it on this one or everyone dies, because theres no gas to go around, and the risk of going around on one engine close to the ground heavy to too great, bringing it down to minimums and greasing it on the runway.

Yeah...........my ass**the avg joe shmoe can do that.
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Awesome post!:rawk:
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
If your offered a job at an airline that wants to pay you crap wages to fly a big jet like a A320 you *should* tell them exactly how fast they can go and • themselves.
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Amen. Where do I send the check?
 
mach77 said:
Here is your first lesson, buy flight sim 2006 for your computer, there's lots of shinny jets on that. second, don't • your self out for 30k take some pride man, You and all the rest of the rich Purdue and riddle brats are f******cking up this industry for the rest of us with your sjs.
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I perfectly understand what you're saying. I fully see myself taking the exact same stance (maybe some kinder words) in 10 years and yelling at a brass 22 year old saying the same things I am saying now if the industry stays the same.

HOWEVER, you have to remember what it was like to be absolutely in love with aviation without all of the crap around the politics. Nothing in the world could stop you from reading books by Machado over and over, sitting by the runway just to catch a glimpse of that Jet landing every so often, and no strings to hold you back from exploring the entire world! I can't stop smiling as I write this.

It's the undying affection for aviation that makes flying so great. Fortunately or unfortunately(see it as you may), it's this same undying affection that propels pilots to start(and i repeat...start) at 30K. (I certainly wouldn't expect to stay at 30K without getting quite upset). The day pilots start rejecting their love and quest of flying before they ever fulfill it, will indeed be a sad day.

P.S. MACH77...I am not rich or a graduate of Purdue flight school because I could not afford it arriving at school. I'm an aeronautical engineering graduate. And I turned down 75K/year starting salary because of this love of flying. Please gather some facts before making personal attacks and look like a •ing idiot.
 
Originally Posted by Maximillian_Jenius
If your offered a job at an airline that wants to pay you crap wages to fly a big jet like a A320 you *should* tell them exactly how fast they can go and • themselves.
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Doug Taylor said:
Amen. Where do I send the check?
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Okay Doug,Max or anyone else what about Continental? They are the first legacy hiring since 9/11. I have heard that their pay across the board starts at $25-30k. But that it is a first year pay only since your not in the union and the pay goes up after the second year exponentially. I have heard that starting pay at majors was the same pre 9/11. So would taking a job at CO for $25-30k starting pay be tantamount to being a •? Even though it's known that salary will quickly rise thereafter. Or are we talking about predatory shady companies like Mesa?
 
The day pilots start rejecting their love and quest of flying before they ever fulfill it, will indeed be a sad day.
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:yeahthat:

However, the love of aviation / flying alone does not put the food on the table, does it? Well, put yourself into professional pilots shoes, your employers want you to take 40 % pay cut and reduce your health benefit in order to compete with other aviation industry firm. After years working so hard for the company, how would make you feel? At the same time, you see managers are taking in a hugh bonus because of your dedication. What does that make you feel? Want to walk off your job? Sure, your employer might just out-sourcing your job to china or india. Or keep working because of love of aviation?

just my 0.02 opinion

adreamer
 
ScareBusA320 said:
Okay Doug,Max or anyone else what about Continental?
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Good question, what ABOUT Continental?!

They are the first legacy hiring since 9/11. I have heard that their pay across the board starts at $25-30k.
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That's about what I made my probationary year. Probationary pay is nothing more than 'hazing'.

But that it is a first year pay only since your not in the union and the pay goes up after the second year exponentially.
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I wouldn't say exponentially but it does go up.

So would taking a job at CO for $25-30k starting pay be tantamount to being a •?
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I'm not following the logic...
 
Doug Taylor said:
That's about what I made my probationary year. Probationary pay is nothing more than 'hazing'.
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Doug Taylor said:
I'm not following the logic...
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My point is that Max said it is wrong to take a job flying an A320 for $30k a year. You then agreed with Max but most legacies have probationary pay starting at $25-$30k. So I'm confused as to why everyone was jumping on Aero_ Engineer for saying he'd fly an A320 for $30k?
 
ScareBusA320 said:
Doug Taylor said:
That's about what I made my probationary year. Probationary pay is nothing more than 'hazing'.
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My point is that Max said it is wrong to take a job flying an A320 for $30k a year. You then agreed with Max but most legacies have probationary pay starting at $25-$30k. So I'm confused as to why everyone was jumping on Aero_ Engineer for saying he'd fly an A320 for $30k?
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A couple of things, you've got to drop the 'legacy' word because it doesn't mean jack.

I'll reiterate.

If the career projection for an A320 pilot is $30,000/year, you're an idiot and deleterious to the profession if you take the job.

If the probationary pay (we're talking the first year) is $30,000 (probationary pay ain't /year, it's your first year), but the pay goes up, I don't think you're an idiot if the pay increases to something logical.

But my statement does not give the industry a pass on meager probationary pay. Probationary pay is nothing more than illogical hazing.
 
Doug Taylor said:
A couple of things, you've got to drop the 'legacy' word because it doesn't mean jack.

I'll reiterate.

If the career projection for an A320 pilot is $30,000/year, you're an idiot and deleterious to the profession if you take the job.

If the probationary pay (we're talking the first year) is $30,000 (probationary pay ain't /year, it's your first year), but the pay goes up, I don't think you're an idiot if the pay increases to something logical.

But my statement does not give the industry a pass on meager probationary pay. Probationary pay is nothing more than illogical hazing.
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Agreed. Why don't you like the term "Legacy?"
 
ScareBusA320 said:
Agreed. Why don't you like the term "Legacy?"
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Probably for the same reason that SteveC winces when someone says the word "irregardless".
 
I just love it when college students know so much more about the realities of this industry than we do, don't you Doug? :sarcasm:
 
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