Dead stick landing from FL270

While Patey has the work ethic and demeanor of a cocaine squirrel, I love the work that he does. Despite not being a formally trained engineer he’s got a great street-smart for engineering design, especially mechanism/kinematics, and his designs for the cub double-slotted leading edge slats and the Turbulence nose gear are very cool. His recent videos on the build photos for Turbulence are very impressive and show the level of structural retrofit they went through on the airframe beyond simply bolting a PT-6 to a Lancair Legacy as many others in the experimental community would do.

While I doubt I’ll change many minds, here are some key points from the video since a lot of you will write this off as experimental stuff and not sit through 40 min:


  • This engine was the second engine. His partner had accidentally hit started engine #1, so they pulled that engine and sent it to P&W for overhaul. They bought this engine used but directly from P&W and only had 5 hours on the airplane before the failure occurred. The airplane had just come out of annual where it was worked on by an A&P specializing in turbine engines and he didn’t think that person did anything wrong.

  • There was no warning in engine instrument trend data leading up to the accident. ITTs were in the mid-700s, and he pulled Garmin’s data cartridge and plotted engine data for all previous flights and saw no trends indicating a looming failure. There was a slight vibration a split-second before the failure.

  • The engine failure itself was catastrophic rather than gradual. There was a loud bang which was an explosion in the power turbine section and sent bits of molten turbine into the leading edges of the wings and horizontal stabilizer, and smoke in the cockpit. He said there was a sudden stoppage of the engine during the explosion which quickly stopped the prop and blew the igniter out of the bottom of the combustion chamber.

  • He borescoped the engine near the end of the video and shows that the power turbine PT2 disc is nearly gone, while the PT1 disc behind it is totally intact. Since air flows backwards towards the nose in a PT6 I believe PT2 is the last turbine the exhaust hits before exiting the engine. So what causes the last power turbine in the engine to spontaneously explode if temperatures were all operated within normal limits? Potentially material science metallurgy issues with the original billet the turbine was machined from, resulting in lower than published material allowables, or flaws and inclusions resulting in early fatigue crack propagation starters and lower than expected fatigue life (see titanium fan blade failure in southwest 737 that killed the passenger sitting behind the wing for another example of this). Patey thinks that a King Air pilot hot-started the engine one or more times and never reported it in its previous life on a B200, because the logs were clean. This seems like as reasonable a hypothesis as any to me especially given the recent corporate aviation anecdotes on this board.

  • They’re sending the engine back to Pratt, who is going to do a tear down and forensic analysis - so this probably isn’t going to be chalked up to “dumb experimental guys effed it up.” But if it is, I’m glad they’re committed to getting to the bottom of it rather than sweeping it under the rug.
I believe PT2 is the furthest left power turbine. You guys who work on and fly them correct me if I’m wrong.


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This is all really good stuff. The only thing I can add is that I have about 3 years of experience flying a King Air 200. Hot starts were never an issue and I don't remember being concerned about hot engine temperature numbers at all. Compared to a TBM700 where I was constantly very concerned about hot temperatures during start, taxi and take off.
 
Along those lines....I'm not able to look it up right now, but SUPPOSEDLY there's an Australian firm who has developed a 200-hp turboprop engine for the EAB market. That would be an amazing game changer, especially if the costs were at or below current recip prices. Last I read they were going to debut the prototype at Oshkosh this year.
A turbine is always going to burn more fuel and be more expensive than an equivalent reciprocating engine. The only advantages would be potentially weight savings, higher reliability and greater fuel availability. Of course any weight savings will be negated by the requirement to carry more fuel. There is also a company in florida that was working on this and had one flying attached to an RV-10. I don't know what happened to them. A reasonable Jet-A burning diesel engine seems more likely an application in this power range. Unfortunately the ones available now are either prohibitively heavy or have prohibitively short operational lives.
 
A turbine is always going to burn more fuel and be more expensive than an equivalent reciprocating engine. The only advantages would be potentially weight savings, higher reliability and greater fuel availability. Of course any weight savings will be negated by the requirement to carry more fuel. There is also a company in florida that was working on this and had one flying attached to an RV-10. I don't know what happened to them. A reasonable Jet-A burning diesel engine seems more likely an application in this power range. Unfortunately the ones available now are either prohibitively heavy or have prohibitively short operational lives.

Bingo. I’ve done a considerable amount of research on this and you’ve summarized it the same way I would. Jet fuel is about 12% heavier per gallon, and consumption is significantly higher. The math isn’t in favor of a conversion unless you factor in reliability and fuel availability. Otherwise, burning extra fuel, heavier fuel for a loss compared to a piston airplane of the same performance range. An easy example is the Soloy conversions of Bonanzas, 206s and such. Sure speed is higher, and some other metrics but the Bonanza airframe has limitations too, Va, Vne and fuel burn goes up but the useful load comes down.
 
Bingo. I’ve done a considerable amount of research on this and you’ve summarized it the same way I would. Jet fuel is about 12% heavier per gallon, and consumption is significantly higher. The math isn’t in favor of a conversion unless you factor in reliability and fuel availability. Otherwise, burning extra fuel, heavier fuel for a loss compared to a piston airplane of the same performance range. An easy example is the Soloy conversions of Bonanzas, 206s and such. Sure speed is higher, and some other metrics but the Bonanza airframe has limitations too, Va, Vne and fuel burn goes up but the useful load comes down.

All really good points. Does the fact that this experimental turbine is considerably lighter than a recip motor play into the equation at all?
 
All really good points. Does the fact that this experimental turbine is considerably lighter than a recip motor play into the equation at all?
Like all airplanes, it is a compromise and depends on your mission. If you are island hopping relatively short distances over open water where avgas isn't available, then it might be for you, but your range or your useful load will suffer depending on which direction you go. It may be lighter than an equivalent piston engine, but to get the same range you'll have to carry significantly more fuel, thus negating the dry weight savings.
 
I figure he had to do a bunch of reinforcement work on the airframe - just because you put a big-ass motor on the airplane doesn't mean that Vne automatically goes up.

Not having an aero engineering background, I do wonder what mods have to be done in that case. I'm guessing significant work on the elevator and stabilizer assemblies.... @inigo88 - can you shed a little light on that?
I definitely recommend watching the video series, but from memory everything firewall forward is new. New heavier engine with a much further forward CG, requiring much beefier engine mount. Nose landing gear and landing gear bay assembly completely new (made of machined billet aluminum and carbon fiber). Engine mount firewall attachment fittings and the longerons would have been reinforced all the way back to the empennage, since the engine mount is reacted directly into the longerons which are the fwd-aft fuselage bending members (same design as in your RV-6!). He may have also mentioned some empennage attach upgrades as well.

This is all really good stuff. The only thing I can add is that I have about 3 years of experience flying a King Air 200. Hot starts were never an issue and I don't remember being concerned about hot engine temperature numbers at all. Compared to a TBM700 where I was constantly very concerned about hot temperatures during start, taxi and take off.
This is good insight. If hot starts we’re unlikely, and assuming the power turbine blades are Titanium (they look it in the photos) I wonder if there’s a material science explanation, like the flaws in the Ti CFM56 blades in the southwest fan blade accident, which may have contributed to a premature fatigue failure.

Bingo. I’ve done a considerable amount of research on this and you’ve summarized it the same way I would. Jet fuel is about 12% heavier per gallon, and consumption is significantly higher. The math isn’t in favor of a conversion unless you factor in reliability and fuel availability. Otherwise, burning extra fuel, heavier fuel for a loss compared to a piston airplane of the same performance range. An easy example is the Soloy conversions of Bonanzas, 206s and such. Sure speed is higher, and some other metrics but the Bonanza airframe has limitations too, Va, Vne and fuel burn goes up but the useful load comes down.

Bingo x2! Due to the higher fuel consumption Mike had to convert virtually every structural bay he could in that Legacy into a wet fuel bay. This included the areas between the ribs under the baggage compartment, the D section of the wings, virtually everything he could. This additional weight required additional structural reinforcement.

What’s interesting to think about in addition to the “does the added speed and shorter enroute time make up for all this extra weight and fuel I’m burning?” trade study, is how that added fuel weight affects performance characteristics and safety. He says in the video that his final approach speed is 140 KIAS and his “over the fence speed” is 120 KIAS, which is high for a Legacy.

You can look to the four forces of flight and the lift equation for why this would be the case. Since the airframe lifting surfaces (wing, horizontal stabilizer) are unchanged, and in stead un accelerated flight Thrust = Drag and Lift = Weight, that added weight means you are asking for an equal and opposite addition in wing lift.

The lift equation says:
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If L (pounds of lift force) must go up to match the corresponding increase in gross weight, and your wing airfoil shape (lift coefficient CL) and wing area (S) are unchanged, and you’re operating in the same standard atmosphere (air density, Greek letter “rho”), the only thing left to do is fly faster (V). If L must go up, V must go up. This likely raised the stall speed and would have implications to FAR part 23 certification (Lancair Legacy is experimental, but most modern experimentals still strive to comply with the airworthiness standards).
 
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