DeltaAlphaNovember
Well-Known Member
We were just about to step into the sim today when we were showed the video. Absolutely heartbreaking.
Dallas Executive Mid-Air / B-17 - P-63
- Thread starter melax
- Start date
As the P-63 is in his turn, his turn circle appears to be such that he is inside the B-17s flight path, and I the B-17, or at least a large percentage of it, is actually under the P-63s nose/forward fuselage. At what point this would have occurred in the turn or when/if there was a last sighting of the B-17, a design-eye study from the P-63 cockpit by the NTSB would have to be completed.
melax
Well-Known Member
Descending left attitude (in that config) unless prior and constant SA of the B-17; the P-63 would not have a proper visual , & probably focused on rejoin the lead aircraft (P-51 I think, hence the high speed "go ahead take the lead" was allegedly heard on the radio...) + wake from the larger aircraft, That could be what did them. Many questions for Airboss...
Video of the P-63 involved
Video of the P-63 involved
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Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
I think it was a bad plan from the start. I’m not sure how active an air boss was in this show but bombers should not have been cleared for final until fighter fly-by was completed. Or, all the aircraft should have followed the same path.
With dissimilar performance, timing the bomber fly-by immediately after the fighter fly-by seems like a tough chore.
DropTank
Well-Known Member
Well... technically....
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
You’re not wrong. But I’ve said something similar in the past when innocent bystanders were killed, and you’d have thought I murdered the first born child of everyone on the forum based on their reaction.
Amateurs doing complicated formation flying is insanity. The Blue Angels is one thing. It serves an actual national purpose for recruiting, and they spend all of their time training and preparing for shows. But when amateurs who occasionally do shows on weekends are involved, it’s very difficult for me to justify the risk. Six families lost someone and a crowd was traumatized. And for what? Nothing of real purpose. I find it tragic. And yes, @Boris Badenov, using your strict definition of tragedy.
Brian29
Well-Known Member
Guess what? You and everyone else who don’t find the risk acceptable can stay at home and not attend. If you don’t feel safe don’t go, its that simple. Why must your threshold of safety be forced upon other people. I know this is going to be near impossible for you to comprehend but the way you see the world is not the only view of things.You’re not wrong. But I’ve said something similar in the past when innocent bystanders were killed, and you’d have thought I murdered the first born child of everyone on the forum based on their reaction.
Amateurs doing complicated formation flying is insanity. The Blue Angels is one thing. It serves an actual national purpose for recruiting, and they spend all of their time training and preparing for shows. But when amateurs who occasionally do shows on weekends are involved, it’s very difficult for me to justify the risk. Six families lost someone and a crowd was traumatized. And for what? Nothing of real purpose. I find it tragic. And yes, @Boris Badenov, using your strict definition of tragedy.
Don't click....
I can't wait for everyones favorite aviation YouTuber to bless us with his wisdom.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
I didn’t say anything about forcing anything on anyone. Try to read for comprehension next time.
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
I never do
Brian29
Well-Known Member
I believe after seeing your posts through these years I comprehend quite well what kind of person you are and what kind of opinions you hold. It’s not too hard
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Cool.
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
To Todd’s point, even the Blues and Thunderbirds pack one in every couple of years or so. I too find weekend warriors doing this type of flying pretty close to the risk envelope.
Brian29
Well-Known Member
Thank you. I though it was pretty cool too. Nice of you to notice.
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
The issue with this argument is implying that these guys are weekend warriors. Most are current/former military and/or airline crews and there is a lot of experience and training involved. Most of the captains of these bombers have over a decade of flying them fairly regularly. This is NOT an amateur hour operation.
Boris Badenov
This is no laughing matter.
Eh, I mean it's right there in the title. Something's pretty wrong somewhere.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
“Amateur hour” is a bit harsh, but they are not professionals in this field. I knew a guy at AirTran who did the airshow circuit. He flew a full line and did the air show formation flying on the side. Yes, he was former military. Thirty years ago. This is the difference between proficiency and technical ability.
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
Volunteer does not equal Amateur.
I'll grant that flying warbirds is definitely on the far end of the risk envelope of what can be considered "normal flying". However the benefit of seeing these birds in the air is worth it IMHO.
Boris Badenov
This is no laughing matter.
There are two ideas being conflated here, I think. Shove one in a museum somewhere, sure, but past that I'm not sure what airplanes are for if not for flying. And everyone knows that planes sometimes crash and that they crash more often at airshows, so you pays your money and you takes your chances.
OTOH, when you say the operation isn't "amateur hour", well, I would argue that the giant ball of flaming debris has invalidated that position like ipso facto. That doesn't mean that the pilot(s) were to blame, but something pretty obviously didn't work right.
