Dallas Executive Mid-Air / B-17 - P-63

As the P-63 is in his turn, his turn circle appears to be such that he is inside the B-17s flight path, and I the B-17, or at least a large percentage of it, is actually under the P-63s nose/forward fuselage. At what point this would have occurred in the turn or when/if there was a last sighting of the B-17, a design-eye study from the P-63 cockpit by the NTSB would have to be completed.
 
Descending left attitude (in that config) unless prior and constant SA of the B-17; the P-63 would not have a proper visual , & probably focused on rejoin the lead aircraft (P-51 I think, hence the high speed "go ahead take the lead" was allegedly heard on the radio...) + wake from the larger aircraft, That could be what did them. Many questions for Airboss...

Video of the P-63 involved

 
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melax said:
Descending left attitude (in that config) unless prior and constant SA of the B-17; the P-63 would not have a proper visual , & probably focused on rejoin the lead aircraft (P-51 I think, hence the high speed) + wake from the larger aircraft, That could be what did them. Many questions for Airboss...
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I think it was a bad plan from the start. I’m not sure how active an air boss was in this show but bombers should not have been cleared for final until fighter fly-by was completed. Or, all the aircraft should have followed the same path.

With dissimilar performance, timing the bomber fly-by immediately after the fighter fly-by seems like a tough chore.
 
Of course the vultures are already commenting about the cause of this accident. :mad:



I can't wait for everyones favorite aviation YouTuber to bless us with his wisdom. :sarcasm:
 
B200 Hawk said:
Not to be a d, but do we really need “air shows?” It’s not like flight is really some crazy thing anymore and the risks obviously don’t outweigh the benefits, imo of course. Seem kind of pointless with YouTube now.
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You’re not wrong. But I’ve said something similar in the past when innocent bystanders were killed, and you’d have thought I murdered the first born child of everyone on the forum based on their reaction. :rolleyes:

Amateurs doing complicated formation flying is insanity. The Blue Angels is one thing. It serves an actual national purpose for recruiting, and they spend all of their time training and preparing for shows. But when amateurs who occasionally do shows on weekends are involved, it’s very difficult for me to justify the risk. Six families lost someone and a crowd was traumatized. And for what? Nothing of real purpose. I find it tragic. And yes, @Boris Badenov, using your strict definition of tragedy.
 
SlumTodd_Millionaire said:
You’re not wrong. But I’ve said something similar in the past when innocent bystanders were killed, and you’d have thought I murdered the first born child of everyone on the forum based on their reaction. :rolleyes:

Amateurs doing complicated formation flying is insanity. The Blue Angels is one thing. It serves an actual national purpose for recruiting, and they spend all of their time training and preparing for shows. But when amateurs who occasionally do shows on weekends are involved, it’s very difficult for me to justify the risk. Six families lost someone and a crowd was traumatized. And for what? Nothing of real purpose. I find it tragic. And yes, @Boris Badenov, using your strict definition of tragedy.
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Guess what? You and everyone else who don’t find the risk acceptable can stay at home and not attend. If you don’t feel safe don’t go, its that simple. Why must your threshold of safety be forced upon other people. I know this is going to be near impossible for you to comprehend but the way you see the world is not the only view of things.
 
Brian29 said:
Guess what? You and everyone else who don’t find the risk acceptable can stay at home and not attend. If you don’t feel safe don’t go, its that simple. Why must your threshold of safety be forced upon other people. I know this is going to be near impossible for you to comprehend but the way you see the world is not the only view of things.
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I didn’t say anything about forcing anything on anyone. Try to read for comprehension next time.
 
Murdoughnut said:
To Todd’s point, even the Blues and Thunderbirds pack one in every couple of years or so. I too find weekend warriors doing this type of flying pretty close to the risk envelope.
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The issue with this argument is implying that these guys are weekend warriors. Most are current/former military and/or airline crews and there is a lot of experience and training involved. Most of the captains of these bombers have over a decade of flying them fairly regularly. This is NOT an amateur hour operation.
 
USMCmech said:
The issue with this argument is implying that these guys are weekend warriors. Most are current/former military and/or airline crews and there is a lot of experience and training involved. Most of the captains of these bombers have over a decade of flying them fairly regularly. This is NOT an amateur hour operation.
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“Amateur hour” is a bit harsh, but they are not professionals in this field. I knew a guy at AirTran who did the airshow circuit. He flew a full line and did the air show formation flying on the side. Yes, he was former military. Thirty years ago. This is the difference between proficiency and technical ability.
 
USMCmech said:
Volunteer does not equal Amateur.
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There are two ideas being conflated here, I think. Shove one in a museum somewhere, sure, but past that I'm not sure what airplanes are for if not for flying. And everyone knows that planes sometimes crash and that they crash more often at airshows, so you pays your money and you takes your chances.

OTOH, when you say the operation isn't "amateur hour", well, I would argue that the giant ball of flaming debris has invalidated that position like ipso facto. That doesn't mean that the pilot(s) were to blame, but something pretty obviously didn't work right.
 
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