Chief Captain
Well-Known Member
Thanks. Quite an interesting read. I hope the new philosophy doesn't cause trouble.
Cross bleed starts
- Thread starter jrh
- Start date
Thanks. Quite an interesting read. I hope the new philosophy doesn't cause trouble.
Autothrust Blue
“If you jump on my shift, that’s just rude, man.”
At Eagle, we were supposed to shut the APU down right after the first engine start and do a cross-bleed start for the second engine. Supposedly, anyway. It turns out that one engine at idle thrust doesn't give enough bleed air extraction margin to run the packs in the summertime in Dallas. SOP was to do a crossbleed start on the straightaway (you have to stand the operating engine up to 80% N2, which is a good bit off idle) but given climactic conditions in the summer this procedure is very rarely accomplished.
I've heard of this person, they have a badge and everything right?
RRPower
Well-Known Member
All pneumatic. No electric starts except for APU.
Have you done a buddy start?
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
To get the first engine started you use something like this:
Have the ground crew hook it up, turn the air when you're ready to start, engine spins, introduce fuel and PFM from there.
The term for this is a 'palouste' -- 'huffer' is just a colloquial term for folks who don't like fancy French words.
Pilotforhire587
Lycra Man
That was awesome.
Autothrust Blue
“If you jump on my shift, that’s just rude, man.”
One of my CRJ-flying coworkers was bemoaning this fact yesterday, as his APU was INOP. Which is a bummer in that airplane (and the ERJ) because many stations either don't have start carts, they don't work, or they are slow to hook them up and remember the procedures...
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
I have in the CRJ200 but never the 700. You basically jam hose with a special clip on it into the high pressure air port on the upside and it pushes open the butterfly valve. Then you plug into the high pressure port on the off plane, crank the engine on the working plane and hope for the best. It did actually work when I did it but apparently it has a low percentage.
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
We did it on the F-18 when the APU would give us trouble. It is also a required maintenance check so I am very familiar cross bleed starting the engines. It is just using bleed air from one engine, to start the other. For the Hornet we had to go to 80% N2 for crossbleed start.
Bandit_Driver
Gold Member
MikeD, that was freaking sweet. I though cartridge starts were a thing of the past for radial engines.
Doesn't the F-18 use a hydraulic accumulator to start the APU?
No APU on a 727 is a huge PITA
Doesn't the F-18 use a hydraulic accumulator to start the APU?
No APU on a 727 is a huge PITA
Chief Captain
Well-Known Member
What exactly is a cartridge start? Is that the same as a bottle start?
Chief Captain
Well-Known Member
If he was really that concerned about the quality of the air start carts, couldn't he have simply left the #2 running? Are you allowed to refuel with the engine running?
It's essentially a controlled explosive charge that gets inserted into a port on engines that are compatible. Normally used when all engines need to be started at once, and there isn't time for start carts etc. When the cartridge is activated, it fires off and its pressure spins the turbine up just like an APU or GPU would. Add fuel and ignition, and you have a start. B-52s could start all eight engines at once in this method. And the jets on nuclear alert used this method to start all engines when the bombers/tankers needed to be flushed and airborne before incoming enemy ICBMs destroyed their bases here in the US.
Some jets still retain the capability. It was mainly bombers/tankers that used them, but some fighters could too back in the day.
Houston
Well-Known Member
Autothrust Blue
“If you jump on my shift, that’s just rude, man.”
I don't know; I fly the Brasilia, where both the engines and props must come to a stop before anything can approach the aircraft other than the guy with the chocks.
That said, I believe they can board and load with #2 running. We could at MQ but rarely would, even with an INOP APU.
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Inverted
mmmmmm wine
Yes it does.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
We can but it's a big pain. You shut down the left engine so the people and bags can unload. Then you crossbleed start the left and shut down the right so the fueler can do his thing (can't hot refuel with pax on board). Once he's done you crossbleed start the right and shut down the left so the people and bags can be loaded and then finally you shut the door and crossbleed start the left.
Autothrust Blue
“If you jump on my shift, that’s just rude, man.”
Yes - that was the RJ-appropriate explanation I was looking for.
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