Corporate Culture Not Good In Aviation

Cherokee_Cruiser said:
My Corpie bashing is because of the egregiousness of it. Most of the Corpie ones I point out are truly head shakers, like how the heck did that happen? Because it was truly unnecessary. The Katz G4 gust lock is a great example. We had ridiculous losses in the 121 world, like the DC8 in PDX that ran out of fuel, but we learned from it and fixed issues (CRM). The Corpie ones shouldn’t be happening in this country with how many advances we’ve made in aviation.
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You realize you’re doing the flight regime version of comparing private automobile accidents to buses or trains, yes?
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
My Corpie bashing is because of the egregiousness of it. Most of the Corpie ones I point out are truly head shakers, like how the heck did that happen? Because it was truly unnecessary. The Katz G4 gust lock is a great example. We had ridiculous losses in the 121 world, like the DC8 in PDX that ran out of fuel, but we learned from it and fixed issues (CRM). The Corpie ones shouldn’t be happening in this country with how many advances we’ve made in aviation.
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If you believe it's that bad, stop whining about it and take action! Write your Congressional members and be heard by those who are paid to listen, start a podcast, write a book, etc!

You have absolutely NO concept of Corporate aviation, how training and equipment has evolved, and what goes on! You’re in your pristine 121 world where someone else died so YOU could operate the way you do today!

I don’t fly a G4 but my bet is that no other G4 has crashed due to a gust lock issue since then. And why not? Because Corporate pilots learn from others’ screw ups just like the Commies do! Must be comforting for you living above everyone else in your fenced-in area.

Sanctimony……

P.S. Seriously…write a book. And please don’t post again about Corporate aviation, Corporate pilots, FBOs, GA magazines, or Part 91 (not even if you’re referring to the actual part #91 in the Lego set you just completed)

SteveC said:
You realize you’re doing the flight regime version of comparing private automobile accidents to buses or trains, yes?
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Exactly! But he doesn’t know this; if he did, he would know something.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
My Corpie bashing is because of the egregiousness of it. Most of the Corpie ones I point out are truly head shakers, like how the heck did that happen? Because it was truly unnecessary. The Katz G4 gust lock is a great example. We had ridiculous losses in the 121 world, like the DC8 in PDX that ran out of fuel, but we learned from it and fixed issues (CRM). The Corpie ones shouldn’t be happening in this country with how many advances we’ve made in aviation.
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I'll preface this by saying I fly corporate aircraft and think @Cherokee_Cruiser comes across like a jackass during most of these corporate vs airline discussions....but he's not wrong, at least in relation to this point. There's some seriously stupid stuff that happens out there. There is a lot more "buyer beware" that happens for both pilots and passengers.

The difference between me and CC is that I have a better understanding of risk vs reward and allowing people to freely choose their career paths and methods of travel. There are lots of things I don't feel are safe enough for me at this point in life, but I don't go on crusades trying to disparage them, either.

So now, what do you propose, @Cherokee_Cruiser ? You don't miss opportunities to rip on corporate incidents. What would YOU do differently? What would it take for YOU to change your mind with regard to putting your family in the back of a corporate aircraft or you to get up front and fly one? Is it a matter of tightening regulations? Tightening training standards? Or is it always going to be too risky for you no matter what, the way BASE jumping off a cliff is too risky for me?
 
jrh said:
I'll preface this by saying I fly corporate aircraft and think @Cherokee_Cruiser comes across like a jackass during most of these corporate vs airline discussions....but he's not wrong, at least in relation to this point. There's some seriously stupid stuff that happens out there. There is a lot more "buyer beware" that happens for both pilots and passengers.

The difference between me and CC is that I have a better understanding of risk vs reward and allowing people to freely choose their career paths and methods of travel. There are lots of things I don't feel are safe enough for me at this point in life, but I don't go on crusades trying to disparage them, either.

So now, what do you propose, @Cherokee_Cruiser ? You don't miss opportunities to rip on corporate incidents. What would YOU do differently? What would it take for YOU to change your mind with regard to putting your family in the back of a corporate aircraft or you to get up front and fly one? Is it a matter of tightening regulations? Tightening training standards? Or is it always going to be too risky for you no matter what, the way BASE jumping off a cliff is too risky for me?
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Simple fix. Start operating like 121. Voluntarily make that investment. Not saying have to upgrade the paperwork and behind the scenes stuff to get 121 certification. But operate like 121.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Simple fix. Start operating like 121. Voluntarily make that investment. Not saying have to upgrade the paperwork and behind the scenes stuff to get 121 certification. But operate like 121.
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Pretty sure you'll get significant pushback concerning this.

'The seven most significant words in emergency services might be "We've never done it this way before," and we go into a basement on fire without sounding the floor.

Going home is ALWAYS the priority despite the obvious risks which must be undertaken for the benefit of others.

No client flown is worth the loss to a family. Care, being thorough, takes a minute or two more.

IDK, just me, I guess. Risked my own life a couple times over the decades but it seems that a professional - in any line of work - might choose a more cautionary approach to flying or firefighting, or anything else, when the choice meant seeing their kids grow up.

Minutes saved are never the equal of eternity for anyone.

Of course, YMMV.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
My Corpie bashing is because of the egregiousness of it. Most of the Corpie ones I point out are truly head shakers, like how the heck did that happen? Because it was truly unnecessary. The Katz G4 gust lock is a great example. We had ridiculous losses in the 121 world, like the DC8 in PDX that ran out of fuel, but we learned from it and fixed issues (CRM). The Corpie ones shouldn’t be happening in this country with how many advances we’ve made in aviation.
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Scrows gonna scrow, bro; Don't matter how liney or corpie.

Generally, American education/training systems have sucked for decades now. And, in additional to that ancient and revered tradition of not wanting to pay to hire current experts to train the next generation of experts - right now, at least half our entire economy and society are broken.

Act, and react, accordingly. Which is to say, duck AND cover!

(I think it was @MikeD or @AMG or @Pilot Fighter who recently quipped what my dad taught me in my early youth: It's generally not how people ACT that causes calamities. Calamities are typically much more caused by how people REACT.)
 
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On a very different note I just discovered that even crappy Cashews, lightly salted (from TOPS, no less) are heavenly when added to Butter Pecan Ice Cream. Every damned care I had in the world dissolved with the melting of cold ice cream and the crunch of frozen, delicious nuts. I couldn't think of a single issue beyond the moment.

Sometimes, maybe, ya' just gotta' stop and live in the moment😄

I (or you) can be "right" in the morning.
 
The whole thread is hilarious when you have the epiphany that CC probably saw some pilot step out of a G5, with a few ladies, and head off to the Ritz Carleton and has simmering jealousy about the perceived nature of Corporate Aviation. Kind of like he's got to hate on Delta at every opportunity.
 
derg said:
The whole thread is hilarious when you have the epiphany that CC probably saw some pilot step out of a G5, with a few ladies, and head off to the Ritz Carleton and has simmering jealousy about the perceived nature of Corporate Aviation. Kind of like he's got to hate on Delta at every opportunity.
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Did you just try to ‘Catch Me If You Can’ me?
 
derg said:
The whole thread is hilarious when you have the epiphany that CC probably saw some pilot step out of a G5, with a few ladies, and head off to the Ritz Carleton and has simmering jealousy about the perceived nature of Corporate Aviation. Kind of like he's got to hate on Delta at every opportunity.
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Usually this level of disdain comes from their inability to process rejection. I’m thinking there was a TBNT letter involved. Maybe more than one - a 135, and SJI.
 
CFI A&P said:
Usually this level of disdain comes from their inability to process rejection. I’m thinking there was a TBNT letter involved. Maybe more than one - a 135, and SJI.
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Not going to get rejected from something you never qualified for though!

I think it’s more a bitterness that his pre-airline experience wouldn’t have gotten him a right seat in a king air, and he wouldn’t have qualified for Delta until he had enough PIC (gained only through 121 CA time) that put the seniority handcuffs on.
 
As if 91 has standards. Technically, you could be a Comm, ME, Inst and find yourself getting typed in a Corpie jet and sit right seat. Sort of like what was happening in the 121 world until Colgan, and then laws changed.


Why would I be pissed about not flying a King Air? Also, Delta, AA, and UA took FOs with 0 TPIC in the last 10 years. Just who you know, networking, luck, timing, etc.


zmiller, no one concentrates as much in my career as you do. If you had focused and paid attention (your krptonite), throughout JC history you would have seen I hit the big 3 in order to stay in a NYC base. Couple smarter members here wrote that I’d be crazy to give everything up to pursue just one base, and just go move instead. As for TPIC, I could have held CA in late 2017, but skipped it in order to stay FO in the NY base. I have been transparent about my career and thought processes in the ‘Member Announcement’ section through the years.


So what about you? American Eagle to where? You’re not flying for a 121 anymore, so would be interested to know what happened.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
As if 91 has standards. Technically, you could be a Comm, ME, Inst and find yourself getting typed in a Corpie jet and sit right seat. Sort of like what was happening in the 121 world until Colgan, and then laws changed.
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What were your qualifications when you left JetU for your first job?
 
Which is why I wrote: “Sort of like what was happening in the 121 world until Colgan, and then laws changed.”


Low time programs can work, like they do at Lufthansa, but not when the US was doing zero screening other than who can sign a loan. If one is going to be low timer, they need to be A game candidates. Eg, no failures, busts, high marks in school and college, etc.

Half the folks I saw at jetU were people who shouldn’t have been there.
 
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