bimmerphile
MCAS Meat Inhibition Logic
ALPA does not hire or fire pilots. In this scenario, please expound with your insider knowledge how the association kept this person employed
Commutair 4933
- Thread starter Roger Roger
- Start date
Old Pete
Cockpit Authoritarian
That's what pilots unions are for. defending pilots. all the time.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
And all I’m saying is the ones getting in trouble for failures *repeatedly* probably oughta not be defended. It would help in avoiding future smoking holes. There IS a correlation.
Wardogg
Meat Popsicle
Someone was going to pull the short straw no matter what. Ill never work for Kirby again, I know that.
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
You know, I'm guilty of thinking that too, but if you look at the lawsuit I posted a link to on the preceding page, as well as this nearly identical one, both pilots accusing the carrier of racial/ethnic discrimination had ALPA reps sit in on their final upgrade checkrides. And in both cases, the ALPA rep agreed with the examiner's failure of the upgrade candidate.
Rajabi v. PSA Airlines, Inc., Case No. 3:11-cv-271 | Casetext Search + Citator
Read Rajabi v. PSA Airlines, Inc., Case No. 3:11-cv-271, see flags on bad law, and search Casetext’s comprehensive legal database
casetext.com
I'm not a pro pilot, let alone a union represented one, just posting legal facts available to myself and other Joe Publics.
But if I ever interview with PSA, I'll be sure to mention that I've been around enough to know not to make someone's ethnicity a conversation piece. I mean seriously.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
I was about 20 numbers junior to him and then flew with him few times between his first and second attempt at upgrade. The first guy who failed him did my upgrade, and the second (and last) guy to fail him did most of my upgrade OE. There is a ton of stuff that was left out of the summary judgment document, but non of it helped the FO's case.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
Nope.
An pilot union is there to defend the contract. If a company follows the rules in the contract in a discipline process, the union won't do a thing to protect the pilot.
The problem is that companies often screw up during the discipline process, and a union is forced to fight for the job of a bad (skills or personality) pilot.
One of the few things I liked about the Mesa pilot contract from 2005 was that you needed two letters of recommendations from two captains to put in a bid for captain upgrade If you were an FO and had never been a captain.
it’s just a formality, you can always find two captains to write you a letter.
we had this one pilot who can pass Checkrides in the sim like no tomorrow, could recite manuals page and verse. But had no business being in the airplane. When you flew with him you were single pilot, he occupied space and sucked the oxygen and wasn’t very much good for anything else. As far as I know he’s still an FO - the #1 FO in PHX when I ran across him two airlines and a decade and a half later when he was looking for the Jumpseat because he can’t get anyone to write him a letter of recommendation to upgrade. Which is a good thing In his case. If he ever upgraded, I can see him putting an airplane into the ground, if the FO isnt 100% fully up to the task of being the PIC and being assertive enough to keep keep overriding the non Decision making he displays as an FO.
i was genuinely happy to see him. He is a good guy very friendly and personable, but has no business being a pilot.
it’s just a formality, you can always find two captains to write you a letter.
we had this one pilot who can pass Checkrides in the sim like no tomorrow, could recite manuals page and verse. But had no business being in the airplane. When you flew with him you were single pilot, he occupied space and sucked the oxygen and wasn’t very much good for anything else. As far as I know he’s still an FO - the #1 FO in PHX when I ran across him two airlines and a decade and a half later when he was looking for the Jumpseat because he can’t get anyone to write him a letter of recommendation to upgrade. Which is a good thing In his case. If he ever upgraded, I can see him putting an airplane into the ground, if the FO isnt 100% fully up to the task of being the PIC and being assertive enough to keep keep overriding the non Decision making he displays as an FO.
i was genuinely happy to see him. He is a good guy very friendly and personable, but has no business being a pilot.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Maybe they should lose once in a while. Just sayin'
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Yup. As is typically the case.
I remember this one at Pinnacle. Tried to use religion as an excuse for discrimination.
Iqbal v. Pinnacle Airlines, Inc., 802 F. Supp. 2d 909 | Casetext Search + Citator
Read Iqbal v. Pinnacle Airlines, Inc., 802 F. Supp. 2d 909, see flags on bad law, and search Casetext’s comprehensive legal database
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dustoff17
Still trying to reach the Top Shelf
This must be 121 logic…..
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Still would rather 121 than ANY 135 or 91.
The word "ANY" is incorrect. Or is at least incorrect for individuals who truly understand the top end of the corporate aviation world.
Lack of understanding on full display again.
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
There's a whole thread for this pursefight.
Old Pete
Cockpit Authoritarian
Nope, a labor union, is not a clique or coffee klatch that decides who they will or will not represent, It is obligated to represent all of the rank and file vs management in the context of an employer/employee agreement.
Don't start none, won't be none.
Moved on to bigger and better
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
I don’t care, I’d take a legacy 121 airline over ANY top end corporate you can think of. No offense to yours in MI.
But why should a pilot come to you in GRR if they have a shot at Delta in DTW?
All it takes is ONE guy who doesn’t like you and your corporate gig could go bad. At a large 121, you and I don’t get along, we may never see each other again for a long time anyway. Plus a guaranteed seniority system for upgrades, etc. No ass kissing. No drama for the mama.
Sorry
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Heard wing scrape Mesa got hired at Delta like 6 months later.
Old Pete
Cockpit Authoritarian
My comment was solely in response to CC, not in reference to this lawsuit, but the purpose of labor unions in general. I have flown with Claude, but I have no comment on about him, management, or how his union acted in this case.
