Commutair 4933

Oh yeah ... that one. :ooh:

1653274434296.png
 
DropTank said:
Can ya TL;DR it for me?
Click to expand...
The ILS was screwy bc of snow, known issue in PQI. Crew missed first approach bc something didn’t look right when they went visual, then apparently just sorta yolod it on the second attempt and had some severe confirmation bias when looking at what they thought were the runway/lights.
Edit: this is my interpretation of the docket. I still don’t see a probable cause report out yet.
 
Last edited:
DropTank said:
Can ya TL;DR it for me?
Click to expand...

CA had a checkered (failure) history. FO had sleep apnea and did not use the CPAP machine the night before, where he only got about ~ 5 hrs sleep.





Captain:

She was 40 years old. She was a pilot for CommutAir since May of 2016. She was at CommutAir before, from 2013 through November of 2015. She left then came back.

In the summer of 2017, she went from a Dash-8 (DH8A) position to the captain position.

She had about 5000 hours total time, with about 1000 hours in the E145. She was typed in the E145, A320, and the DH8A. She had an ATP certificate. In the Dash-8, she was in the right seat. When she transitioned to the E145, she went to the left seat. She was based in Newark, New Jersey, and commuted from her home in Florence, Alabama, and also spent much of her time with her boyfriend in Atlanta, Georgia.

She had been a flight attendant for Omni from 2005-2008, flying on a DC-10 and B757.
In 2008, she enrolled full-time in a flight training program at a 14 CFR part 141 flight school in Tulsa, Oklahoma, finishing all of her licenses in about 1 year, around March or April of 2009. There were no jobs and her mentor from Omni gave her guidance. She went to fly for Wilderness Air Charters,
a charter company in Africa. She worked there from January of 2010 to January of 2011. She was basically a bush pilot in remote areas of southern Africa. She returned to the US, and from December of 2011 till October of 2012 she flew an Aero Commander 500 for Central Air Southwest, a part 135 operator. She flew night cargo 5 nights a week from Memphis, Tennessee, to Kansas City, Missouri.

Then she went to Republic Airlines from October 2012 to January 2013. She had a couple of checkride failures there and was not successful passing all the training.

She did pass her training for the Q400, but ended up leaving after she passed her checkride.

At Republic, she initially failed then passed her checkride. She left the company due to LOFT issues. Republic put it in her file that she had failed her training. She thought she had resigned. She did not feel that she got proper training and decided to leave.

She then went to CommutAir in March 2013. She was there till November 2015 flying as a first officer on the Dash 200 and 300 out of Dulles Airport.

From November of 2015 through January of 2016, she was with Virgin America. Here she obtained a type rating on the Airbus 320. Because of some issues with her paperwork, she ended up leaving.

Then she went back to CommutAir.

She has been there since going back in May 2016. When she first went back to CommutAir, she flew the Dash-8 because she was still current on it. In the summer of 2017 she upgraded to the E145.

She did have an unsatisfactory in her initial training due to learning some maneuvers in a new airplane but passed everything after that and had been successful in training since then.



Also from the VP of flight ops:

He knew the accident captain and FO by name. He had had interactions with the captain. He had heard concerns about the captain, not from the flying standpoint, but rather interpersonal issues. He thought the action he had taken against her in the past had yielded the intended result. She
received a disciplinary letter when she was an FO on the Dash-8; it was an agreement with her to forgo upgrade to captain and be monitored for nine months. (He also stated he had put a disciplinary letter in the captains file as part of this action)
 
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Cherokee_Cruiser said:
CA had a checkered (failure) history. FO had sleep apnea and did not use the CPAP machine the night before, where he only got about ~ 5 hrs sleep.





Captain:

She was 40 years old. She was a pilot for CommutAir since May of 2016. She was at CommutAir before, from 2013 through November of 2015. She left then came back.

In the summer of 2017, she went from a Dash-8 (DH8A) position to the captain position.

She had about 5000 hours total time, with about 1000 hours in the E145. She was typed in the E145, A320, and the DH8A. She had an ATP certificate. In the Dash-8, she was in the right seat. When she transitioned to the E145, she went to the left seat. She was based in Newark, New Jersey, and commuted from her home in Florence, Alabama, and also spent much of her time with her boyfriend in Atlanta, Georgia.

She had been a flight attendant for Omni from 2005-2008, flying on a DC-10 and B757.
In 2008, she enrolled full-time in a flight training program at a 14 CFR part 141 flight school in Tulsa, Oklahoma, finishing all of her licenses in about 1 year, around March or April of 2009. There were no jobs and her mentor from Omni gave her guidance. She went to fly for Wilderness Air Charters,
a charter company in Africa. She worked there from January of 2010 to January of 2011. She was basically a bush pilot in remote areas of southern Africa. She returned to the US, and from December of 2011 till October of 2012 she flew an Aero Commander 500 for Central Air Southwest, a part 135 operator. She flew night cargo 5 nights a week from Memphis, Tennessee, to Kansas City, Missouri.

Then she went to Republic Airlines from October 2012 to January 2013. She had a couple of checkride failures there and was not successful passing all the training.

She did pass her training for the Q400, but ended up leaving after she passed her checkride.

At Republic, she initially failed then passed her checkride. She left the company due to LOFT issues. Republic put it in her file that she had failed her training. She thought she had resigned. She did not feel that she got proper training and decided to leave.

She then went to CommutAir in March 2013. She was there till November 2015 flying as a first officer on the Dash 200 and 300 out of Dulles Airport.

From November of 2015 through January of 2016, she was with Virgin America. Here she obtained a type rating on the Airbus 320. Because of some issues with her paperwork, she ended up leaving.

Then she went back to CommutAir.

She has been there since going back in May 2016. When she first went back to CommutAir, she flew the Dash-8 because she was still current on it. In the summer of 2017 she upgraded to the E145.

She did have an unsatisfactory in her initial training due to learning some maneuvers in a new airplane but passed everything after that and had been successful in training since then.



Also from the VP of flight ops:

He knew the accident captain and FO by name. He had had interactions with the captain. He had heard concerns about the captain, not from the flying standpoint, but rather interpersonal issues. He thought the action he had taken against her in the past had yielded the intended result. She
received a disciplinary letter when she was an FO on the Dash-8; it was an agreement with her to forgo upgrade to captain and be monitored for nine months. (He also stated he had put a disciplinary letter in the captains file as part of this action)
Click to expand...
So the vaunted 121 safety system isn't exactly 100% effective? :stir:


j/k - there are a few winners skating around on the 91 and 135 ice rinks as well.
 
SteveC said:
So the vaunted 121 safety system isn't exactly 100% effective? :stir:


j/k - there are a few winners skating around on the 91 and 135 ice rinks as well.
Click to expand...

For regionals that is often the first 121 job and PRIA contact.

IIRC, and again IIRC, this person was let go after something not disclosed on the app and interview, but came out after completing training and was discovered that some previous info (failure) was hidden. Then it’s bye Felicia. In that regard, she was kept out of VX.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
CA had a checkered (failure) history. FO had sleep apnea and did not use the CPAP machine the night before, where he only got about ~ 5 hrs sleep.





Captain:

She was 40 years old. She was a pilot for CommutAir since May of 2016. She was at CommutAir before, from 2013 through November of 2015. She left then came back.

In the summer of 2017, she went from a Dash-8 (DH8A) position to the captain position.

She had about 5000 hours total time, with about 1000 hours in the E145. She was typed in the E145, A320, and the DH8A. She had an ATP certificate. In the Dash-8, she was in the right seat. When she transitioned to the E145, she went to the left seat. She was based in Newark, New Jersey, and commuted from her home in Florence, Alabama, and also spent much of her time with her boyfriend in Atlanta, Georgia.

She had been a flight attendant for Omni from 2005-2008, flying on a DC-10 and B757.
In 2008, she enrolled full-time in a flight training program at a 14 CFR part 141 flight school in Tulsa, Oklahoma, finishing all of her licenses in about 1 year, around March or April of 2009. There were no jobs and her mentor from Omni gave her guidance. She went to fly for Wilderness Air Charters,
a charter company in Africa. She worked there from January of 2010 to January of 2011. She was basically a bush pilot in remote areas of southern Africa. She returned to the US, and from December of 2011 till October of 2012 she flew an Aero Commander 500 for Central Air Southwest, a part 135 operator. She flew night cargo 5 nights a week from Memphis, Tennessee, to Kansas City, Missouri.

Then she went to Republic Airlines from October 2012 to January 2013. She had a couple of checkride failures there and was not successful passing all the training.

She did pass her training for the Q400, but ended up leaving after she passed her checkride.

At Republic, she initially failed then passed her checkride. She left the company due to LOFT issues. Republic put it in her file that she had failed her training. She thought she had resigned. She did not feel that she got proper training and decided to leave.

She then went to CommutAir in March 2013. She was there till November 2015 flying as a first officer on the Dash 200 and 300 out of Dulles Airport.

From November of 2015 through January of 2016, she was with Virgin America. Here she obtained a type rating on the Airbus 320. Because of some issues with her paperwork, she ended up leaving.

Then she went back to CommutAir.

She has been there since going back in May 2016. When she first went back to CommutAir, she flew the Dash-8 because she was still current on it. In the summer of 2017 she upgraded to the E145.

She did have an unsatisfactory in her initial training due to learning some maneuvers in a new airplane but passed everything after that and had been successful in training since then.



Also from the VP of flight ops:

He knew the accident captain and FO by name. He had had interactions with the captain. He had heard concerns about the captain, not from the flying standpoint, but rather interpersonal issues. He thought the action he had taken against her in the past had yielded the intended result. She
received a disciplinary letter when she was an FO on the Dash-8; it was an agreement with her to forgo upgrade to captain and be monitored for nine months. (He also stated he had put a disciplinary letter in the captains file as part of this action)
Click to expand...
Eerily similar to the Atlas Air 3591 FO’s resume.
 
Roger Roger said:
The ILS was screwy bc of snow, known issue in PQI. Crew missed first approach bc something didn’t look right when they went visual, then apparently just sorta yolod it on the second attempt and had some severe confirmation bias when looking at what they thought were the runway/lights.
Edit: this is my interpretation of the docket. I still don’t see a probable cause report out yet.
Click to expand...
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
CA had a checkered (failure) history. FO had sleep apnea and did not use the CPAP machine the night before, where he only got about ~ 5 hrs sleep.





Captain:

She was 40 years old. She was a pilot for CommutAir since May of 2016. She was at CommutAir before, from 2013 through November of 2015. She left then came back.

In the summer of 2017, she went from a Dash-8 (DH8A) position to the captain position.

She had about 5000 hours total time, with about 1000 hours in the E145. She was typed in the E145, A320, and the DH8A. She had an ATP certificate. In the Dash-8, she was in the right seat. When she transitioned to the E145, she went to the left seat. She was based in Newark, New Jersey, and commuted from her home in Florence, Alabama, and also spent much of her time with her boyfriend in Atlanta, Georgia.

She had been a flight attendant for Omni from 2005-2008, flying on a DC-10 and B757.
In 2008, she enrolled full-time in a flight training program at a 14 CFR part 141 flight school in Tulsa, Oklahoma, finishing all of her licenses in about 1 year, around March or April of 2009. There were no jobs and her mentor from Omni gave her guidance. She went to fly for Wilderness Air Charters,
a charter company in Africa. She worked there from January of 2010 to January of 2011. She was basically a bush pilot in remote areas of southern Africa. She returned to the US, and from December of 2011 till October of 2012 she flew an Aero Commander 500 for Central Air Southwest, a part 135 operator. She flew night cargo 5 nights a week from Memphis, Tennessee, to Kansas City, Missouri.

Then she went to Republic Airlines from October 2012 to January 2013. She had a couple of checkride failures there and was not successful passing all the training.

She did pass her training for the Q400, but ended up leaving after she passed her checkride.

At Republic, she initially failed then passed her checkride. She left the company due to LOFT issues. Republic put it in her file that she had failed her training. She thought she had resigned. She did not feel that she got proper training and decided to leave.

She then went to CommutAir in March 2013. She was there till November 2015 flying as a first officer on the Dash 200 and 300 out of Dulles Airport.

From November of 2015 through January of 2016, she was with Virgin America. Here she obtained a type rating on the Airbus 320. Because of some issues with her paperwork, she ended up leaving.

Then she went back to CommutAir.

She has been there since going back in May 2016. When she first went back to CommutAir, she flew the Dash-8 because she was still current on it. In the summer of 2017 she upgraded to the E145.

She did have an unsatisfactory in her initial training due to learning some maneuvers in a new airplane but passed everything after that and had been successful in training since then.



Also from the VP of flight ops:

He knew the accident captain and FO by name. He had had interactions with the captain. He had heard concerns about the captain, not from the flying standpoint, but rather interpersonal issues. He thought the action he had taken against her in the past had yielded the intended result. She
received a disciplinary letter when she was an FO on the Dash-8; it was an agreement with her to forgo upgrade to captain and be monitored for nine months. (He also stated he had put a disciplinary letter in the captains file as part of this action)
Click to expand...

Wow, you guys delivered.

Thank you
 
She was slightly ahead of me in seniority at C5, but then left for VX right before she could upgrade. Rather scattered individual, always leaving something in the airplane, always some drama.Then she came back to C5 after whatever happened and having upgraded in 2015, I flew with her when she was rehired. The experience had humbled her, but then she upgraded and the drama began again. I never had an issue, but she could be very abrasive, especially toward FA’s. She nearly received a crew room beat down from one of my favorite ( but also very hot blooded) flight attendants. As I said, drama might as well have been her middle name.

I LOATHE second guessing accident crews. We’ve all done stupid things, made poor decisions or made poor decisions along with bad information or any combination thereof. But when I found out the captain on 4933 that morning, I wasn’t surprised.

As an aside, I miss small town PQI, during the summer anyway. PITA airport at times, but really the only thing separating PQI from some of our other POS airports was that PQI was non-towered. We always had some kind of mediocre airport in our UAL route structure, what regional or any operator doesn’t have those high pucker factor airports?

The only thing that saved this from being worse was the 3+ft of snow they landed in.
 
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See this is my problem with the industry. It’s like we didn’t learn from Colgan, except to keep the 1500 hr (which I don’t think would have stopped the crash, but different topic for different day).

Pilot leaves regional. Goes to major. 4 months later, comes back to said regional. If I was a Flight Ops head honcho, that would be a huge red flag. Why you back? What happened? Once she returned If I’m reading correctly she failed Dash upgrade twice and E145 upgrade once. That should be enough strikes to let someone go and not hire them. At any airline.

121 events are largely predictable and easy. I can see one failure. I cannot see or understand multiple repeated failures.


ALPA needs to be stop defending these pilots all the time. A part of “defending the profession” means telling people they just aren’t cut out for flying paying passengers and to pick a new career. But ALPA is too scared they’ll get hit by a DFR lawsuit.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
ALPA needs to be stop defending these pilots all the time. A part of “defending the profession” means telling people they just aren’t cut out for flying paying passengers and to pick a new career. But ALPA is too scared they’ll get hit by a DFR lawsuit.
Click to expand...
show your work
 
bimmerphile said:
show your work
Click to expand...

I’ve talked to enough Training Committee members. Including a “why is he still here?” convo.

They have to represent and defend, despite the checkered background and attitude problems.

Some airlines have a two strike rule for CA upgrade. After your second failure at upgrade, your 3rd will be the last. So they become career FOs. “Hey, you’re too weak and incompetent to be a CA. So go be a weak FO the rest of your career.”


This CommutAir. Atlas. Colgan. It’s almost as if there is some sort of recurring theme with smoking holes and recurrent failures and incompetence.
 
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