sherpa
Well-Known Member
From what i understand you retain flight bennies but not jumpseating.
Colgan Reduction Conference Call Highlights
- Thread starter SmitteyB
- Start date
From what i understand you retain flight bennies but not jumpseating.
CAPIP1998
Well-Known Member
The problem with the voluntary furlough is that, according to Colgan's Policies, after 90 days a furlough automatically turns into a dismissal. They do not keep furloughed pilots on a list. So if you (or I) get furloughed, better start looking for a job right away 'cause chances are we're done at Colgan.
Read your employee handbook, page 4-10 carefully before signing up for anything. It makes it very clear what happens in case of furlough.
TUCKnTRUCK
That guy
This is all market correction. Guys getting hired into airlines with 300 hours is/was absurd. It's true that i would have done it in a heartbeat, but the industry simply does not support that. If it was not now, two years down the road the same crunch would have been on the CA side.
Sucks for sure... but i'm glad to see that it takes more than ATP mins to get a job these days. A return to the natural order of progression is needed.
Once, i was flying with an FO. His leg, empty. We were getting the crap kicked outta us in the clouds. I seriously gave myself a tattoo on my palm trying to write the atis down, gave up, and read it back to him. 15 minutes later, he looks at it, not remembering the weather, and says to me,"I Used to tell my students to write so that we could both read it" Just what i need... a low time pilot who is god's gift to avitaion, thinking of me as his student. Heck, even some of them cover the controls on landing... in an airplane which i have landed more times in the last 3 months, then they have landed total in any airplane. It is time for experience levels to go up, and Pilot Development programs to go away. It is time for people to really work to gain the privlidge of flying the public. I hope Jet U and all places like that go under.
Some of the people getting furloughed i feel bad for. These guys have thousands of hours in big planes... whom just lost their job. For most everybody else, this is a move back to where they should have been originaly. I did my 3+years of instruction, worked in diffrent venues of avitaion, and draw upon my experiemce daily. I would not consider myself a safe captain without it.
When the job becomes easy to get, it loses the respect it deserves.
Sucks for sure... but i'm glad to see that it takes more than ATP mins to get a job these days. A return to the natural order of progression is needed.
Once, i was flying with an FO. His leg, empty. We were getting the crap kicked outta us in the clouds. I seriously gave myself a tattoo on my palm trying to write the atis down, gave up, and read it back to him. 15 minutes later, he looks at it, not remembering the weather, and says to me,"I Used to tell my students to write so that we could both read it" Just what i need... a low time pilot who is god's gift to avitaion, thinking of me as his student. Heck, even some of them cover the controls on landing... in an airplane which i have landed more times in the last 3 months, then they have landed total in any airplane. It is time for experience levels to go up, and Pilot Development programs to go away. It is time for people to really work to gain the privlidge of flying the public. I hope Jet U and all places like that go under.
Some of the people getting furloughed i feel bad for. These guys have thousands of hours in big planes... whom just lost their job. For most everybody else, this is a move back to where they should have been originaly. I did my 3+years of instruction, worked in diffrent venues of avitaion, and draw upon my experiemce daily. I would not consider myself a safe captain without it.
When the job becomes easy to get, it loses the respect it deserves.
v1valarob
Well-Known Member
United = No bennies
USAir = 90 Days
Continental = 6 Months
Healthcare goes to Cobra.
MF did jump in on the conference call and said that they may look into extending the 90 day furlough to 12 months.
They also said no jumpseat priviledges. They want their badge back
-Rob
beechpilot
Well-Known Member
More will come as it isn't official yet but the EAS contracts in AUG and BHB are basically a done deal for Colgan. In AUG, the airport committee submitted a proposal in favor of Colgan and in BHB they were the only bidder. Not sure what the base situation will actually be like but it's sounding like BHB is the base and will make stops in AUG.
Snuggle
Well-Known Member
They also said no jumpseat priviledges. They want their badge back
Looks like I won't be bidding for leave then. I would have done it if I could jumpseat around the world for a month or two and helped another pilot keep their job at the same time. I hope things change by the time Nov. comes around. A lot of pilots came here after being furloughed from Skyway, Big Sky, ATA, Aloha, etc. I would hate to see anyone get furloughed here at Colgan.
SRA_kbad
Scooter Trash!!!
:whatever:
I'd respond to this, but this isn't the time nor the place
Good luck to you Colgan guy's
SeanD
Well-Known Member
:yeahthat:
ANG135drvr
Well-Known Member
:yeahthat: Wow, but if your offended by someone covering the controls you need to find another line of work. I don't care how many hours you have or how many landings you have... YOU and ME and every other pilot on this board is prone to mistakes. Nothing wrong with backing up the other pilot. And if you have so many landings...it makes me wonder why they are covering the controls??? It's our job. As for the rest of your post... I won't waste my time.
Best of Luck to all of us Colgan guys and the rest of the industry. It's a sucky time but this career is a roller coaster and just about every pilot gets the kick to the groin once in their career.
Best of Luck to all of us Colgan guys and the rest of the industry. It's a sucky time but this career is a roller coaster and just about every pilot gets the kick to the groin once in their career.
Cptnchia
Dissatisfied Customer
They also said no jumpseat priviledges. They want their badge back
It's a TSA thing. You need to be an active employee to be able to jumpseat. Same thing happened at DL. Even though we had a contractual right to jumpseat, the TSA said no way, and they won.
v1valarob
Well-Known Member
Yea, I understand. I basically cant see any benefit to someone taking voluntary furlough unless your a street captain who will be downgraded, or you are under the year contract and want out.
-Rob
Becareful ANG135! I believe this Top Gun's pilot skills is just as great as the autopilot on the Q. Your rudder skills must me grade A buddy! LOL
JaceTheAce
Well-Known Member
Pure arrogance.
Baronman
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure if I'd call it arrogance, but it's surely not the most "PC" thing ever written on this board. I don't think he wants anyone to lose their job, but it's not a tragedy that the 500hr guy is no longer getting his door beat down by the airlines.
TUCKnTRUCK
That guy
No doubt, i would have taken the job if offered at 500 hours also... But from the other end now, i see that it's just not the right and natural order of things.
I also have noticed, with great levels of similarity that low time FO's lack a level of respect which almost becomes rude. There is a diffrence in being ready at the controls, and then, covering them physicaly touching them.
The auto pilot in the Q sucks.
The honest truth is, a lot of people got hired, with skill sets and experience that does not match the level of resposibilty. If that pisses you off because you have 500 hours and got hired, i'm sorry. I feel that the first time you see snow, ice, sleet, 1800rvr landings etc. it should not be with 74 people in the back.
Nothing against the pilot, but, If you need to go through "pre" training, to bring you up to speed for training, then you are not ready for the job. I'll catch more flac for this, but, I don't work at GIA, and i am not getting training override, so you should be able to handle things without constant coaching.
If you really want to run background on me, pm seggy, or teller1900 both have spent time in the box with me.
I also have noticed, with great levels of similarity that low time FO's lack a level of respect which almost becomes rude. There is a diffrence in being ready at the controls, and then, covering them physicaly touching them.
The auto pilot in the Q sucks.
The honest truth is, a lot of people got hired, with skill sets and experience that does not match the level of resposibilty. If that pisses you off because you have 500 hours and got hired, i'm sorry. I feel that the first time you see snow, ice, sleet, 1800rvr landings etc. it should not be with 74 people in the back.
Nothing against the pilot, but, If you need to go through "pre" training, to bring you up to speed for training, then you are not ready for the job. I'll catch more flac for this, but, I don't work at GIA, and i am not getting training override, so you should be able to handle things without constant coaching.
If you really want to run background on me, pm seggy, or teller1900 both have spent time in the box with me.
Airdale
Well-Known Member
I have no dog in this fight, so really I don't care.
But who in their right mind is flying around Cessna's and light twins teaching students in snow, ice, sleet and 1800RVR visibility? Honest question. Because when I was a CFI, I avoided things that the airplane weren't certified for, like ice, snow and sleet. I also set a minimum ceiling of 1,000' for IFR training. Letting a student fly an approach down to mins in actual was not something I felt too safe doing. This is all just on the assumption that everyone flight instructs prior to their 121 career.
Also, if the FAA is over seeing the training departments in the 121 industry, and thus putting these 500hr pilots in the right seat, then I'll take their word over the internet. A bad egg gets through the cracks no matter their flight time. Some people just down right suck at this job, but do well enough to get by. Not everyone is Chuck Yeager and not everyone is the sharpest tool in the shed. Experience can't fix stupidity or poor decision making skills. No offense, but if I was flying with someone who got their "experience" with ice and snow while flying around a 172 not certified for it, I'd question their decision making ability.
Just a perspective.
TUCKnTRUCK
That guy
Where did i ever say 172? or student for that matter? I said a move back to where they should be. There are plenty of light twins certified for icing. Barron’s Seneca’s Navajo’s are all capable of icing. 210's and 206's, as well can be equipped. Caravans, twin otters, 421's, 402's, Aztec's, c90's... list goes on. As a cfi I flew most all of those. In 135, I def. did. In my other various other jobs I did so as well.
1000ft ceilings? What happened when you ran into unforcast weather? Never gotten caught in a snow shower? Snow in flight is not icing if it does not accumulate.
Heck, I had 3 engine failures before moving to an airline... 2 single engine, 1 multi engine, all at different facilities, in everything from a 3 year old 172 to a 30 yr old Aztec. I've been caught over the mountains in the winter on a clear day, when an un-forecast warm air mass got pushed up the mountain resulting in cloud formations and icing... this at the end of a 2.5 hour x-c flight. All these events don't mean much in the big picture, but the experience I gained dealing with these situations I use everyday to help me make better decisions.
You chose to set high mins for you and your students and that is excellent; I would never knock anybody for that. I felt it was better that students got to do it the first time with the safety net on board, but that was my comfort level. Different than yours, so I did it differently.
Back to my original point, the industry is unstable right now, but, it is in the state of a correction. Just like the sub prime lending breakdown, this has been building for a long time. Some people will get burned. That is inevitable. A good portion of the people who will be displaced, are the low time pilots who will inevitably now take jobs hauling freight, charter, instruct or whatever they have to do. They will build experience, and when the time comes when they are competitive, get the jobs they deserve.
Experience is the solution for bad judgment, decision making, and stupidity.
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
Well what if you're a 135 freight dog in California.... all you get is the dreaded morning fog.... None of the tough stuff that these other newbies also might not have seen by the time they start...
