Cockpit View of Idaho Plane Crash

[z987k]

Is this directed at me? If so, how do you know anything about my background? Just wondering

He's referring to Ajax, who said he has no mountain flying experience.

 

[Ajax]

He's referring to Ajax, who said he has no mountain flying experience.

I also said that I'd love to learn more about it from someone informed on the subject and that I'd use performance tables plus a little bit as well as get proper instruction if I was going to do it. Just because I posted a rule of thumb that was taught to me doesn't mean I'd stick to it, especially if you read my post.

 

[Murdoughnut]

Wait ... it makes perfect sense now ...

 

[Okie_Pilot]

Don't ever fly the rockies(or western US) in a small plane then. Downdrafts are part of flying, and if you couldn't do anything about it, then it's your fault. The only way you can't do anything about it is if you put yourself in a situation with no outs to begin with and approached the area in a not so smart way.

No need to come off as a dick. Last time I checked you have no idea who I am or what I do, nor my experience level.

Was you there in the backseat and I didn't realize it?

Do you know the type of flying I do?

Apparently you know more about what happened than I do.

I also happened to have a 13,000 hour pilot in the seat next to me who's flown all over the U.S. and even out of the U.S. from crop dusters to fast moving twin turbines with ejection seats. That happened to be the worst down draft and situation he's ever been in too.

So before you go off telling me what I should and shouldn't do in regards to my flying, maybe you should sit back and think "Well, maybe I don't know the whole story and I shouldn't act like the Sky God."

And if you EVER DO find yourself in a downdraft, good luck doing much about it.

 

[tomokc]

Thread lock in three, two...

 

[SteveCostello]

Seriously. Why does everyone on JC suddenly have their panties in a bunch over everything? Is it that time of the month for JC or something? Sheesh... lighten up, folks. Everybody kick back, pour a dram of single malt, sing kumbaya, and let's get back to being a cohesive, friendly group. Feels more and more like APC here every day, lately.

 

[jeflies]

Anyone know where I can find some further reading on air pockets? I don't want fall victim to one like this fella.


Sent from my iPhone

 

[SteveCostello]

Anyone know where I can find some further reading on air pockets? I don't want fall victim to one like this fella.

Can't tell if or not...

But if not, it doesn't look like this was an air pocket (armchair pilot disclaimer here). This looks like a case of being too heavy in too high of a density altitude with too rich of a mixture, and likely flight toward rising terrain.

 

[Cheyenne]

Maybe I am the one who's missing something. As it has been taught to me, wind generated on the leeward side of a ridge is a mountain wave. The air is moving, so updrafts, and downdrafts may be present, but by definition, the activity present is called a mountain wave. Is this incorrect?

Incorrect. If you're really interested in these subjects I would highly reccommend Sparky Imenson's "The Mountain Flying Bible Revised. He explains it better than we can on a forum. (Yes he died in a plane crash doing dumb pilot tricks but the content of the book is correct)

 

[Cheyenne]

I think he had the airplane Wrecked before engine start. But other factors I noticed were the mixture rich, no flap, heavy, rising terrain, summer, fat pilot, stinson (I love stinsons but N ID in the summer and heavy isn't it's mission), trees, etc.

Although! I also think they all lived because the asshat actually flew it into the trees. If he would have tried to keep it out of them they would have stalled and departed controlled flight. ...So props for that... but he's still a tool

 

[jeflies]

Can't tell if or not...

But if not, it doesn't look like this was an air pocket (armchair pilot disclaimer here). This looks like a case of being too heavy in too high of a density altitude with too rich of a mixture, and likely flight toward rising terrain.

Yeh 100% sarcasm.


Sent from my iPhone

 

[SteveCostello]

OK. Whew! Good to know. I don't recall seeing any of your posts. If you had been Boris or Derg, I would have figured as much.

 

[WacoFan]

I can't imagine any way to give this guy the benefit of the doubt. I can't think of anything. The freaking airplane tried to tell him not to fly (by sinking back to the runway) and it wasn't enough of a hint. I think that's what my grandpa meant when he said to "listen to what the airplane is telling you". Clearly, the airplane was saying "Hey, dumb ass, let's not fly today. Let's go back to the hanger and sit in the shade and drink beer".

 

[tomokc]

Hypothetical: Say that it's YOU sitting in the right seat with the camera, and you're bouncing, bouncing, bouncing down the strip, not climbing, not climbing, not climbing. At what point do you say something or chop power and apply brakes? Non-pilots don't have the awareness or ability, but pilots do. So at what point do you risk pissing off your buddy but saving your (and his) life?

This is kind-of like the thread on the Ryanair 737 right wingtip striking the American 767 tailplane on a Barcelona taxiway. Some here have said that if they were aboard the Ryanair flight and it didn't stop to investigate, they'd pop the hatch and deploy the slide in order to keep it on the ground. You'd be on The List for the rest of your life, but so what?

 

[SteveCostello]

Like I mentioned above, it's kinda hard to judge what you would do, since you can't unknow what you know now. Knowing what I DO know, there's no way we would have gone anywhere past halfway down the runway. I call for an aborted takeoff, no questions asked.

I would like to think that if I didn't know what was really going on, that by the time we did get in the air, when it was obvious we weren't climbing any time soon, and while there was still an awful lot of green between us and the trees, I would have said something. I wouldn't have known not to say "should we turn around?" or anything, but I could have at least hopefully made the pilot rethink what he was doing. Anybody with any sense at all would see the course of events and know something was not right. Question is, how many folks would actually say something about it, or just assume the pilot knew what he was doing. The three guys in that plane didn't speak up, and they nearly paid for it with their lives.

 

[A150K]

Man, I was so focused on all of that landable grass...Fixation (in this case on a goal) can be a killer.

 

[A150K]

Ya, those are contributing factors for sure. Did he just forget, or(like at my flight school) was the mixture full rich for takeoff regardless of ANYTHING!

Did you have to wear stripes at your flight school?

 

[z987k]

Did you have to wear stripes at your flight school?

No we didn't, no one did because that's toolish.

 

[Shiftace]

IB4TL

 

[Cptnchia]

Seriously. Why does everyone on JC suddenly have their panties in a bunch over everything? Is it that time of the month for JC or something? Sheesh... lighten up, folks. Everybody kick back, pour a dram of single malt, sing kumbaya, and let's get back to being a cohesive, friendly group. Feels more and more like APC here every day, lately.

Wanna fight about it!?