KSCessnaDriver
Well-Known Member
Does it? Does it really? In my opinion, it doesn't. I don't particularly care what TSA does. Yes, they are a bunch of morons, but I don't really care what they do. Life is too short to worry about everything.
CLASSIFIED TOP SECRET - CIA Ops endangering commercial flights
- Thread starter Qutch
- Start date
Does it? Does it really? In my opinion, it doesn't. I don't particularly care what TSA does. Yes, they are a bunch of morons, but I don't really care what they do. Life is too short to worry about everything.
staledog
Well-Known Member
Correct. And beyond that, it affects us all as our freedoms and privacy are steadily eroded in the name of "security".
staledog
Well-Known Member
You might not care yet, because at this point you can mostly avoid them by not using the airlines. But if this trend continues, they could be harassing people with roadblocks (yes, cops already do this, so it's not far fetched to think the TSA could decide to do it too)....or maybe just decide to randomly stop and search you and your family while you're out for a walk. Then you might care.
staledog
Well-Known Member
Personally, I care because I'd like my kids to continue to live in a free country and not the police state it's steadily becoming. Not attacking your point of view, just trying to explain my reasons for caring about things like this.
Cazadores
Well-Known Member
I agree, a small group with a common goal can pull off things, like the Portland JTTF scam. However you are now asking me to believe DHS, DOJ, DOS and CIA, in a much bigger wave of cooperation than just a few compatriots in Sana'a were suddenly able to get along with each other, find enough competent people willing to play along, and then get the Dutch and Israelis on board. This is one of the fundamental issues with US Federal Government conspiracy theories, I know them, they just aren't that organized, often do not see the need/benefit of playing nice with other agencies or even departments within their own, and well, often are not that smart either.
My Brother is a lawyer, and not a tax attorney, he sometimes works with the FBI, let me tell you, he is a pretty bright guy, but if I took him to the airport and asked who was doing what he wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a ticket agent and a special agent. Haskell's time as a "federal government lawyer" are not really impressive credentials, but I agree with him the 253 bomber was thrown to the media and abused in an opportunistic fashion, just probably not a plant, not enough evidence.
Ok, but these knuckleheads if they are being actually harvested, equipped, and put on airplanes, have to be funded, supplied and given visas, etc. Sort of like the fighters at Eglin, or people claiming the Toledo ANG shot down UA 93...at some point someone like MikeD is in the cockpit of the fighter, or counting AIM 9s, and raises questions or blurts out in pain of guilt "I shot down the jet! or in this case "I am facilitating terror for Chertoff's nudie machines!!!"
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Terrorist Plots, Hatched by the F.B.I. - NY Times
Sure, and why not give dummy stingers to them and see if you catch a bigger bad guy....
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That is a little closer to where I am at, we don't need a conspiracy, we don't need to harvest, all DHS needs to do is make sure each event is well covered in the media. The 253 thing is really a great example, I mean, if it was truly meant to sell backscatter why would they plant a bomb experts say would not have been detectable by backscatter? Why take the risk of covert operations when it is so patently unnecessary, the sheeple have shown clearly they do not care, or are to stupid to analyze the risks and stand for their rights. I mean seriously, we, here in the land of the free and home of the brave, walked through airports listening to recorded messages reminding us of the current threat color, put our hands on our heads and cried "never forget" while we were being lied to all the while repeating the mantra "whatever, just keep us safe." This really became apparent years ago with the DUI enforcement craze but that is another discussion for another day....
KSCessnaDriver
Well-Known Member
Fair enough. I don't kid myself into thinking that 1 person can take on the TSA and win. Our country is beyond the point of fixing. Want to fix it, start over.
I don't get paid enough to care about anything other than my job, and sometimes not even it.
What's interesting is that a local news affiliate would pick up the story. There's likely some element of truth somewhere, as a news agency isn't going to stake their credibility on there not; what with not wanting to be the next NBC "Trayvon 911" or CBS "fake but accurate" banner holder. With regards to whether this story is true in its entirety, I have no idea. At the same time, I do know that while there's not always a large conspiracy, there are those in government who do or sanction things for their own political or power ends. Witness Fast and Furious for that angle on things. So there is historical precedent for, as I mentioned before, keeping or increasing funding for certain things, by maintaining or advertising a threat that needs to be addressed. IE- creating problems, so the ready-made solutions can be implemented. Whether that's going on specifically in this case, is at least worthy of scrutiny.
But that shouldn't make a difference, because you don't care. That's fair.
Cazadores
Well-Known Member
Well, you are correct, Issue #! for me involved somewhat an unwillingness to risk exposure to discovery, however really, there is little to lose, at most you get a few guys squirming in a Senate hearing, a couple of heads roll, outrage of the week, and the beat goes on, because, well, no one really cares....
Qutch
Question everything
Well said. You're following my drift here. Even when they get caught, they've figured out that no one cares. Who's gonna stop them?
They got caught faking the Jessica Lynch story. They got caught faking the Pat Tillman story. They got caught faking "Iraqi biological weapons lab" 911 anthrax letter attacks (which turned out to be an exclusive US Army weaponized product). Then they got caught faking the "yellow-cake" mushroom cloud uranium story. They faked Ron Paul's poll standings. Should I go on? Who in the Gov't or US media went to jail for faking any of that?
I'm saying now that they faked the Flight 253 story. But not enough people care. So we just send MikeD to Afghanistan to pull out our casualties. I'm thinking we may need to start caring.
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Cazadores
Well-Known Member
All the things people do everyday for our society, not just military, but the cop who really works for the community rather than be a mere hall monitor, the PD who stands for every client in defense of all our rights, the teacher who stays late and sacrifices weekends to inspire their students....Take MikeD, seriously, I have spent time on the border, and can't imagine Afghanistan, and while maybe flying for an ANG RQS was my dream job, lets face it his office is not exactly easy or hospitable. Compared to these people I am a total narcissist, seems like caring is a pretty small investment comparatively....
Anyway, hats off to Mike, when I hear he is home there will be some raised glasses in the Biggest Little City in his honor...Anyway, enough sentimentality, back to the conspiracies, sorry for the sidetrack....
Thats what I refer to above. There doesn't necessarily have to be any kind of grand government conspiracy, but just people within an organization or agency who have an agenda, and the power and placement to make certain events happen. Fast and Furious wasn't the entire ATF involved, just some higher-ups, as well as others elsewhere.
Cazadores
Well-Known Member
You still have to get him a visa, you still have to get him through security with a bomb....that requires State and the Dutch. State already admits they were more or less told to issue the visa so the FBI could follow him, now we just have to get the Dutch involved, oh yeah, and DHS, since he was on a no-fly watch, so now we have DHS, State, the Dutch, FBI, OK, yeah the CIA was talking to his Dad, so they had to be kept up to speed,....see where I am going? Not impossible, but definitely more than 1 or 2 people.
Cazadores
Well-Known Member
Not to sidetrack again, but what was the agenda or policy goal in Fast and Furious? What was it supposed to show and what was the desired result? I am curious, to hear it from your perspective, without the hyperbole and partisan nonsense.
Qutch
Question everything
I have to come clean with this now. I would not have started this thread if I didn't think I could substantiate the major claims being made. I'm sitting on mounds of other evidence. But I knew the OP was already very large, and it would take some serious effort to get thru it. My thanks to all of you who did go through it before posting your comments. Now I'll tell you that the OP was only Phase I. There's more, and I can prove that the US Gov't intentionally let the Nigerian on to Flight 253, knowing he was a security risk. Then they lied about it. Then they changed their story. But the media stayed with the original discredited story anyway, and keeps on selling it to this day. The Official Story is in large part........ a lie.
Repeat: The media stayed with the original discredited story anyway, and keeps on selling it to this day.
Important - Please listen carefully to these 2 videos
This video is reposted from above (post #5). I know this guest "expert" sounds like a loon unless you're familiar with the history, but he predicted the Flight 253 outcome correctly, in the foreign media, almost immediately after it happened. Listen to his reference to "the State Department and Patrick Kennedy."
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Foreign Policy Magazine -
" In an overlooked interview on NPR last week, Under Secretary of State for Management Patrick Kennedy suggested that maybe the intelligence community sometimes lets suspected terrorists come to the country on purpose."
http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/p...uys_wanted_underwear_bomber_to_come_to_the_us
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Intel Op - After days of congressional hearings, frustrated Senators finally beat an admission out of State Department Spokesman, the tap dancing Patrick Kennedy.... "we let him on the plane at the request of our Intelligence Partners" (listen carefully to the disclosure starting at 5:15 thru 6:30 on the tape.)
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After saying too much in public, Kennedy clams up and tells the Senators he can't say anymore, except "in private". What do you suppose he does not want cameras to record and the public to hear?
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My opinion only: I think it was an overly ambitious plan to try and show how guns were getting across the border, smuggled in either direction, by "placing them in circulation" so to speak, then keeping track of them. A plan like this is FAR easier said than done, as we well know; and many line personnel in ATF were vehemently against the program idea for just that reason: the guns getting lost and no way to track them, as well as being used in crimes because of them going right into bad guys' hands. The program made absolutely no sense due to its impossibility to manage. Even with the line-agents disagreeing heavily, the plan was put forward........this is what makes people believe that there's some sort of hidden agenda with it. That, as well as other agencies not being informed of the plan of the US Government putting assault weapons into bad guy circulation; a plan that wasn't found out until a US Border Patrol agent was killed in AZ by one of these exact weapons that was recovered. Other weapons that were involved in the program, identified by serial number, have been found at various crime scenes in Tucson and Phoenix, as well as surrounding cities. Attorney General Eric Holder, who claimed no knowledge of the operation, is in possibility of being held in contempt of Congress, as it's now known he had signed off on it; a fact that makes people wonder what the Administration knew about this operation and when they knew of it.
Well, for a website that prides itself on not having personal attacks, he doesn't make any. Information presented, I take as just that: information. It's not necessarily a conclusion and there's likely more information to things presented. It's just something that should make people think, in my opinion, as cases of persons within government meddling and pulling strings for their own grand purposes, isn't unprecedented. Power does corrupt, unfortunately.
As mentioned above, I do get annoyed having to clean up the mess of just one of the current boondoggles that is poorly run (but didn't need to be); picking up the pieces of those paying the ultimate price for that boondoggle.....11 years later still.