CLASSIFIED TOP SECRET - CIA Ops endangering commercial flights

mshunter said:
At first when I saw Qutch's posts, I was like "what a nut bag this guy is!"

Then I really looked at his posts, and the seemingly factual information he finds to support his information and tehn I thought "this nut bag might be for realz!"
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Thanks mshunter. That's a real compliment. :)

(I think)
.
 
MikeD said:
My opinion only: I think it was an overly ambitious plan to try and show how guns were getting across the border, smuggled in either direction, by "placing them in circulation" so to speak, then keeping track of them. A plan like this is FAR easier said than done, as we well know; and many line personnel in ATF were vehemently against the program idea for just that reason: the guns getting lost and no way to track them, as well as being used in crimes because of them going right into bad guys' hands. The program made absolutely no sense due to its impossibility to manage. Even with the line-agents disagreeing heavily, the plan was put forward........this is what makes people believe that there's some sort of hidden agenda with it. That, as well as other agencies not being informed of the plan of the US Government putting assault weapons into bad guy circulation; a plan that wasn't found out until a US Border Patrol agent was killed in AZ by one of these exact weapons that was recovered. Other weapons that were involved in the program, identified by serial number, have been found at various crime scenes in Tucson and Phoenix, as well as surrounding cities. Attorney General Eric Holder, who claimed no knowledge of the operation, is in possibility of being held in contempt of Congress, as it's now known he had signed off on it; a fact that makes people wonder what the Administration knew about this operation and when they knew of it.
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Thanks, if I am getting it right your opinion is it was an effort to figure out the mechanics of illegal weapon smuggling, rather than a spearhead for some sort of greater policy/social agenda.
 
MikeD said:
Thats what I refer to above. There doesn't necessarily have to be any kind of grand government conspiracy, but just people within an organization or agency who have an agenda, and the power and placement to make certain events happen. Fast and Furious wasn't the entire ATF involved, just some higher-ups, as well as others elsewhere.
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Sorry, this thread was tl;dr.


Calzadore, yes there is the logistics of the situation but not impossible for a small faction with all the right contacts.
 
Qutch,

Like I said there is a lot of unknowns.
Who was the man in the tan suit who was he working for?
Did the US know what Abdulmutallab was going to do?
He was being watched in hopes that he would lead to a bigger target. This is not something new.
Look you could be right or you could be wrong but nothing you have posted is all that eye opening one way or the other. So lets see this mound of other evidence.
 
pullup said:
Sorry, this thread was tl;dr.


Calzadore, yes there is the logistics of the situation but not impossible for a small faction with all the right contacts.
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Sure, but now I think Qutch may be on to something, as far as if no one cares why even have a team or group, I mean, you get some federal employee waiting to get his pension, feeling beat up by all the press about how he is overpaid/under worked, with full knowledge if he does get caught no one will care, doesn't take a lot of effort to simply tell some cubicle bureaucrat to take the guy off the list, give him a visa, etc.
 
Cazadores said:
Sure, but now I think Qutch may be on to something, as far as if no one cares why even have a team or group, I mean, you get some federal employee waiting to get his pension, feeling beat up by all the press about how he is overpaid/under worked, with full knowledge if he does get caught no one will care, doesn't take a lot of effort to simply tell some cubicle bureaucrat to take the guy off the list, give him a visa, etc.
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Actually, that's part of the 911 hi-jacker story if I'm not mistaken. A State Department official (working in Saudi Arabia) did come forward and tried to blow the whistle. Said they were being ordered to issue visas to bad guys.

However, "tl;dr, don't care, not my problem, etc, etc." His story got lost in the pile of other people trying to blow the whistle, with nobody listening.

I'll save that story for some other thread, on some other day.
.
 
Cazadores said:
Thanks, if I am getting it right your opinion is it was an effort to figure out the mechanics of illegal weapon smuggling, rather than a spearhead for some sort of greater policy/social agenda.
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Honestly, I don't know the answer to that. I know it was couched as an effort to figure out the mechanics of illegal weapons smuggling. But whether that was really what it was, or if that was only the impression they wanted to give while covering for some other agenda, I can't prove or disprove right now. I just find it ironic that if it was intended to be a smuggling investigation, why DHS and it's agencies who would run afoul of said plan, weren't informed of the plan at all.
 
Murdoughnut said:
I can't buy into the argument that the media would aid the government in a cover up ... well except maybe Fox.
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My sarcasm radar isn't calibrated yet for JC. I was curious as to what you meant by this, and what you think the media is doing with this story. Why isn't the American media reporting the same as the overseas media? Specifically that the State Department changed their story and later confessed that they let the terrorist board the plane intentionally at CIA request.

staledog said:
Sounds plausible. Very well laid out post(s), with supporting facts and evidence. Qutch is an investigative reporter, but even better than the ones on TV because he's not tied to the mainstream media which reports 90% crap.
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Same question. One of the puzzling parts of this whole story is trying to understand why the American media would drop their reporting of the pax interviews, and never even report the State Department's eventual confession that they lied and intentionally let him on the plane as part of the CIA intelligence operation.

The eye opening interviews posted here have been hiding in plain sight. But the American media continues to report that the Underwear Bomber proved the necessity for aggressive TSA patdowns and scanners. Why are we learning about this BIG white lie from qutch's forgotten Youtube videos instead of ABC, NBC and CBS? Why won't our own domestic media report this and correct the story?
 
Gonzo said:
Qutch,

Like I said there is a lot of unknowns.
Who was the man in the tan suit who was he working for?
Did the US know what Abdulmutallab was going to do?
He was being watched in hopes that he would lead to a bigger target. This is not something new.
Look you could be right or you could be wrong but nothing you have posted is all that eye opening one way or the other. So lets see this mound of other evidence.
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I am not following you. You are saying that you already knew that the State Department admitted lying and that the CIA wanted the suicide bomber on Delta 253? You're saying you knew that the pax were contradicting the government story? I'm taking you at your word on that, but what was your source on this? On the Underwear Bomber 2.0 thread I asked how it is that some of you guys consistently come up with info sources beyond the rest of us, beyond the American media, and asked for a website that has some of this black info. Or some other level of JC. Where else did you find this? Were Kurt Haskell and Patrick Kennedy already discussed on another JC thread? What are you trying to say here?
 
skyking_den said:
My sarcasm radar isn't calibrated yet for JC. I was curious as to what you meant by this, and what you think the media is doing with this story. Why isn't the American media reporting the same as the overseas media? Specifically that the State Department changed their story and later confessed that they let the terrorist board the plane intentionally at CIA request.



Same question. One of the puzzling parts of this whole story is trying to understand why the American media would drop their reporting of the pax interviews, and never even report the State Department's eventual confession that they lied and intentionally let him on the plane as part of the CIA intelligence operation.

The eye opening interviews posted here have been hiding in plain sight. But the American media continues to report that the Underwear Bomber proved the necessity for aggressive TSA patdowns and scanners. Why are we learning about this BIG white lie from qutch's forgotten Youtube videos instead of ABC, NBC and CBS? Why won't our own domestic media report this and correct the story?
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http://www.neatorama.com/2008/07/07/who-owns-what-on-television/

Many of the media outlets are owned by players in the military industrial complex. I would argue that you have identified one of the major causes of the "war on terror" and incidents such as the underwear bomber being a false flag operation. The military industrial complex is directly manipulating the public through the news media and even T.V. shows. The message is simple "be afraid and you will be safe if you give up your freedom." Secondarily, the corporate owned news media will run stories that affect the profitability of the parent corporation: "security concern A requires military spending B".

I have not done the research but I would not be in the least bit surprised if there was a corporate entity that owned both a media outlet selling us on the underwear bomber and the company that profits from the sale of the TSA scanners.
 
Paranoia is in bloom,
The PR, transmissions will resume
They'll try to, push drugs that keep us all dumbed down
And hope that, we will never see the truth around

Another promise, another seed
Another, packaged lie to keep us trapped in greed
And all the, green belts wrapped around our minds
And endless red tape to keep the truth confined

They will not force us
They will stop degrading us
They will not control us
We will be victorious

Interchanging mind control
Come let the, revolution takes its toll
If you could, flick the switch and open your third eye
You'd see that, we should never be afraid to die

Rise up and take the power back
It's time the, fat cats had a heart attack
You know that, their time's coming to an end
We have to, unify and watch our flag ascend
 
Seriously though, anyone who thinks those in the right spots wouldn't pull something like this is blind.
 
Lets keep in mind here, State did not allow him on the jet, or get him through security, they merely admitted to issuing a visa. if this was an intended false flag event it required many more conspiring entities than just DOS.
 
Having to wait for 20 years after retirement to talk about things under a security clearance sucks, by then everyone thinks you're just a crazy old codger.
 
skyking_den said:
I am not following you. You are saying that you already knew that the State Department admitted lying and that the CIA wanted the suicide bomber on Delta 253? You're saying you knew that the pax were contradicting the government story? I'm taking you at your word on that, but what was your source on this? On the Underwear Bomber 2.0 thread I asked how it is that some of you guys consistently come up with info sources beyond the rest of us, beyond the American media, and asked for a website that has some of this black info. Or some other level of JC. Where else did you find this? Were Kurt Haskell and Patrick Kennedy already discussed on another JC thread? What are you trying to say here?
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What I am saying is, it is not eye opening to hear the State Department and the CIA are lying to cover a mess up. I am also saying it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that the CIA was watching Abdulmutallab hoping he would lead to a higher up.


I also saw a great video today about PETN. I guess this stuff is real easy to make and cheap.
 
Gonzo said:
What I am saying is, it is not eye opening to hear the State Department and the CIA are lying to cover a mess up. I am also saying it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that the CIA was watching Abdulmutallab hoping he would lead to a higher up.
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That's great that you suspected the government was lying. Probably a few other people did too. And hindsight is always 20/20. You have good hindsight. Everybody has perfect hindsight. But the point is, nobody else was willing to stick their necks out and post it because they had no evidence. Qutch and a few others here knew where to find the evidence and laid it out. That's awesome. Maybe they've got sources. Maybe it's inigo88's OSINT method. I don't know. What I get a kick out of is that they assembled the evidence and put it out there before the tv networks or the newspapers.

You just seemed kind of dismissive of everything here like you knew it all. I wanted to know where from, or where you had posted it here. Thanks for explaining it.
 
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