Cirrus Pilots

TFaudree_ERAU said:
Moral obligations should always trump profit. If you hold information that could spare life or limb, it should be shared.

Oh wait, how silly of me. I forgot. We live in America. Money over morals.
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I don't make the rules cochise. And neither you nor I will ever change them. So we can either choose to live in reality and acknowledge that this is how things really are, or we can bitch and moan that reality doesn't match our magic fairy world where all the companies are profitable and moral and all the girls are attractive and lacking in morals.
 
wjmiller3 said:
How much time do you have in 22 turbos? I fly them for a living and if you were taught correctly you would know EXACTY what your max CHT is in cruise, and how you lean the mixture for cruise settings. The max CHT is 380 in cruise and if you approach that number you lean the mixture to cool off the CHT's. You were saying previously you run LOP and talked about people running ROP in the 22 turbo. If that is how you are running this airplane you are wrong again. You level out in cruise and reduce fuel flow to @17GPH, then based on CHT's, you lean some more to cool it off if you are approaching 380 on the CHT. That is how cruise setting is accomplish in a 22 turbo, not based on LOP or ROP. And for the people that diagree, this is how I was factory trained for CSIP training and I have the manuals to prove it. Nowhere in the 22 turbo training manuals does it suggest leaning based on peak. It is all based on CHT's, and that majic number is below 380. Now you go get in a non-turbo 22 and everything I just wrote goes out the window....
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In the SR22T as you lean the airplane the CHT increases as you lean to peak and then decreases after you get past peak headed towards lean of peak. The CHT could be at 380 degrees ROP and then 380 degrees LOP. The initial pull back to 17GPH will pull it past peak to a lean of peak setting. I couldn't remember 380 in my head but you are correct that is what it is for the turbo but as long as you are under 400 you are good to go.
 
jhugz said:
In the SR22T as you lean the airplane the CHT increases as you lean to peak and then decreases after you get past peak headed towards lean of peak. The CHT could be at 380 degrees ROP and then 380 degrees LOP. The initial pull back to 17GPH will pull it past peak to a lean of peak setting. I couldn't remember 380 in my head but you are correct that is what it is for the turbo but as long as you are under 400 you are good to go.
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Hold on, my head's spinning here and I don't think you're getting the nuances of how to lean an engine correctly.

There will be two peak points when you lean an engine. First you'll set to your GPH (a ballpark figure) and proceed to lean from there. Now if I remember correctly, once you hit that first peak number, you should go and enrichen the mixture a little bit and when you lean it again you'll end up with your real peak number.

At this point, check your CHT's and make sure you're not above whatever number you're using for your max CHT.

Further, I believe 380 is the max number you should ever run your engine at on a regular basis if I read Tornado Alley's website correctly.

To be honest, you probably haven't been trained properly on how to lean correctly, nor do you have much experience with big engines just yet to understand how to care for them properly. We went through a 6-8 week training program to qualify on the Chieftain for initial, and you were probably tossed into the Cirrus with a few hours of dual.
 
jtrain609 said:
No deadlines for UPS/DHL? If you miss the big airplane back at the hub, you're kinda hosed eh? Kelvin has made that statement about CVG, which is all ad hoc and as he said, doesn't really have deadlines.

Burbank had deadlines, it was all bank runs.
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Did you even read what I wrote? I was agreeing with you on babying the Chieftain's engines. I stand corrected on what the runs were in Burbank. I do not know how the differences in philosophy came about with regards to fuel, but I do know most runs I did as a floater were tight deadlines. Airnet at one point in time had it down to a science on how to make everything work within the time frames allotted.

It is sad to hear their status now.
 
Stone Cold said:
Did you even read what I wrote? I was agreeing with you on babying the Chieftain's engines. I stand corrected on what the runs were in Burbank. I do not know how the differences in philosophy came about with regards to fuel, but I do know most runs I did as a floater were tight deadlines. Airnet at one point in time had it down to a science on how to make everything work within the time frames allotted.

It is sad to hear their status now.
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Yes, I did Joe. You said that Amflight guys didn't have schedules to keep, here, let me quote you.

No, they stopped running them balls to the wall because they were more into the UPS/DHL whomever feeds, right? Other Amflight pilots on here have said they really have no deadlines. Keep to the schedule and mostly do out, sit, and backs, correct?
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That only holds true for CVG, which is an ad hoc base. There are no runs out there. All the other bases have a schedule to keep.
 
jtrain609 said:
Yes, I did Joe. You said that Amflight guys didn't have schedules to keep, here, let me quote you.



That only holds true for CVG, which is an ad hoc base. There are no runs out there. All the other bases have a schedule to keep.
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me said:
No, they stopped running them balls to the wall because they were more into the UPS/DHL whomever feeds, right? Other Amflight pilots on here have said they really have no deadlines. Keep to the schedule and mostly do out, sit, and backs, correct?
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Whatever. Lay off the caffeine, John. Have a good time with this...:confused:
 
jtrain609 said:
There will be two peak points when you lean an engine. First you'll set to your GPH (a ballpark figure) and proceed to lean from there. Now if I remember correctly, once you hit that first peak number, you should go and enrichen the mixture a little bit and when you lean it again you'll end up with your real peak number.
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The leaning procedure in the Avidyne equipped Cirrus, normally aspirated mind you, is to set your power, hit the lean assist button on the MFD, and then lean to peak EGT. Depending on whether you want to run LOP or ROP, you then either continue leaning to 25* LOP (to yield ~13 gph) or enrichen to 65* ROP (~18 gph). You will then see a message on top of the EGT indications that says either "Best Economy" or "Best Power", respectively.

Either way, the EGTs will be between 1440 and 1460 and the CHTs should settle right around 345-350. As you said, CHTs should never exceed 380. I'll ballpark the EGT at 1450 if I'm on a short hop and don't have time to mess with the lean assist.

This may be out of line with the 22T. I have no experience in that model.
 
Lean assist? What kind of noise is this!? :)

Give me a 40 year old EGT gauge that only works half the time and I'll think the airplane is as well equipped as an RJ :)
 
jtrain609 said:
Hold on, my head's spinning here and I don't think you're getting the nuances of how to lean an engine correctly.

There will be two peak points when you lean an engine. First you'll set to your GPH (a ballpark figure) and proceed to lean from there. Now if I remember correctly, once you hit that first peak number, you should go and enrichen the mixture a little bit and when you lean it again you'll end up with your real peak number.

At this point, check your CHT's and make sure you're not above whatever number you're using for your max CHT.

Further, I believe 380 is the max number you should ever run your engine at on a regular basis if I read Tornado Alley's website correctly.

To be honest, you probably haven't been trained properly on how to lean correctly, nor do you have much experience with big engines just yet to understand how to care for them properly. We went through a 6-8 week training program to qualify on the Chieftain for initial, and you were probably tossed into the Cirrus with a few hours of dual.
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I have not been through 6-8 week program for the cirrus however I was trained by a CSIP. Have been working with a Cirrus Sales Rep for the region with thousands of hours in the airplane and just recently sat in on a 3hr class on engine management specifically for the SR2x taught by a multi thousand hour cirrus pilot. I have no doubt in my mind that I understand the concepts of leaning a cirrus the proper way.

And what is so hard to understand Train? I'm not the one lost...
 
All I know is that every Cirrus pilot I know, while they love the Parachute, they also recognize that the Earth is 4.6 billion years old.

Zing!
 
surreal1221 said:
All I know is that every Cirrus pilot I know, while they love the Parachute, they also recognize that the Earth is 4.6 billion years old.

Zing!
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Just think of the chute as the "oh sh**" that isn't going to work solution after your emergency has happened. It your one muligan in flying..
 
jhugz said:
In the SR22T as you lean the airplane the CHT increases as you lean to peak and then decreases after you get past peak headed towards lean of peak. The CHT could be at 380 degrees ROP and then 380 degrees LOP. The initial pull back to 17GPH will pull it past peak to a lean of peak setting. I couldn't remember 380 in my head but you are correct that is what it is for the turbo but as long as you are under 400 you are good to go.
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No, as long as you are below 380 you are good.
 
TFaudree_ERAU said:
The leaning procedure in the Avidyne equipped Cirrus, normally aspirated mind you, is to set your power, hit the lean assist button on the MFD, and then lean to peak EGT. Depending on whether you want to run LOP or ROP, you then either continue leaning to 25* LOP (to yield ~13 gph) or enrichen to 65* ROP (~18 gph). You will then see a message on top of the EGT indications that says either "Best Economy" or "Best Power", respectively.

Either way, the EGTs will be between 1440 and 1460 and the CHTs should settle right around 345-350. As you said, CHTs should never exceed 380. I'll ballpark the EGT at 1450 if I'm on a short hop and don't have time to mess with the lean assist.

This may be out of line with the 22T. I have no experience in that model.
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You are correct for the non-turbo. But leaning procedures are a whole different story in the turbo, you do not use the lean assist. It is all done based on initial setting of fuel flow to 17 GPH, then adjustments based on CHT's. EGT's are not used for leaning but they are monitored to make sure they dont get out of limits.
 
jtrain609 said:
Lean assist? What kind of noise is this!? :)

Give me a 40 year old EGT gauge that only works half the time and I'll think the airplane is as well equipped as an RJ :)
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I'm guessing that you guys weren't equipped to run LOP (lean of peak) in the big Pipers were you? I think that the new Cirri are equipped and trained to do so.

There are much different techniques involved in running LOP versus ROP, even if you're running the exact same model of engine.

Somehow I think you guys are talking past each other because of the difference between the two types of operations.
 
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