Childless Couples by choice?

A Life Aloft said:
It is one of the most difficult, challenging, important and rewarding things that a person can do.
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Really reaching by suggesting it's "important". Humans are not an endangered species.

You mention it's difficult and rewarding. Obviously you wouldn't bother with the trouble if not for the reward, so those "sacrifices" are as much for you as they are for the child.

There is no way you can claim becoming a parent is a "selfless" act, as you did in your post.
 
Holocene said:
Really reaching by suggesting it's "important". Humans are not an endangered species.

You mention it's difficult and rewarding. Obviously you wouldn't bother with the trouble if not for the reward, so those "sacrifices" are as much for you as they are for the child.

There is no way you can claim becoming a parent is a "selfless" act, as you did in your post.
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Are you a parent? You seem rather bitter and negative for some reason(s).
 
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The rewards/benefits are not measured in the way that I believe that you think they are. And you do not become a parent because of that. The rewards/benefits are a plus, often a surprise and again different than you can ever imagine or expect. When you have your first child, you are totally clueless as to what they even are, or how they exist, so that never really crosses your mind so much and has little to nothing to do with your decision to have a child. You also cannot imagine how being a parent changes you, but it does.

I never stated "important" in the way you are trying to twist my words/make them sound, either. It is important in that it's a serious and great responsibility. Parenthood is not something to be taken lightly. And it is very important to do the best job possible again, not for yourself at all, but for your child and his/her welfare, benefit and future. It's 24/7 and lasts the rest of your life.
 
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Derg said:
Strange how fast time flies. Was just hanging out with a friend who I met about four years before I met @MikeD and this guy, even though we met in the 80's, has a kid graduating from college. I don't even feel that old, but time flies.

Hell, I still remember when I met @MikeD when I got drunk and fell down the stairs in Prescott in 1989. Still feels like yesterday.
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Had many a times doing stuff together since that first meet. I've often thought it'd be fun to go back in time for a week, back to our old apartment there, and live a week again as college students; yet knowing what we know now.
 
jtrain609 said:
It's possible that I have low standards for my own life, and it's also possible I'm a horrible father, but 6 months in, I don't feel like I've given up anything, nor have I found our daughter to be that expensive. We've cut back on the frequency in which we do activities that don't involve our daughter, but they sure aren't gone.

And it was actually fly22 that clued me into this. A few years before we had our kid, he told me, "You know, people complain about giving up all this stuff for their kids, but I just don't see it. Do I play fewer rounds of golf these days? Sure, but when I'm not playing golf, I'm playing with my daughter, and honestly that's what I'd rather do. It's not a sacrifice, it's a choice of how to spend your time."
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Well said!

With regard to $$ we noticed that too. When they were young we found they were not necessarily that expensive. That changes as they get older, unfortunately. The cost of car insurance and the caloric needs of pubescent teens never ceases to astound me.

That being said I have no regrets with regrds to having a family. They are work, and there is sacrifice involved. My oldest is 17 and looking back I know the choice to have kids has meant the sacrifice of some experiences and purchases. In return I have had other experiences with my children that I would not trade for anything. I'm happy, miss them while I'm on trips and can't imagine life without them.

Children are a deeply personal choice. I'm not going to fault anyone if they choose not to have one.
 
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I regret not having ours sooner. I don't think I would have had the issues I did if I had been much younger starting out. We adore our boys and can't imagine not having them. Our lives are different, but that's fine with us.
 
amjon said:
I regret not having ours sooner. I don't think I would have had the issues I did if I had been much younger starting out. We adore our boys and can't imagine not having them. Our lives are different, but that's fine with us.
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Did you want to have them when you were younger but decided to wait? (Could you afford it when you were younger?)
 
Lee D said:
Children are a deeply personal choice. I'm not going to fault anyone if they choose not to have one.
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Not being jerky, but there's no reason to. Fault should only be found with those who choose to have them when they are unprepared either emotionally, psychologically, or financially to provide them with adequate care. Not having them deserves no judgment, because no one is being hurt or damaged in the process. But having them - that's a whole other issue that actually SHOULD carry more judgment, not to mention caution and a lot a lot a lot a lot of thought.
 
SeatClutcher said:
Not being jerky, but there's no reason to. Fault should only be found with those who choose to have them when they are unprepared either emotionally, psychologically, or financially to provide them with adequate care. Not having them deserves no judgment, because no one is being hurt or damaged in the process. But having them - that's a whole other issue that actually SHOULD carry more judgment, not to mention caution and a lot a lot a lot a lot of thought.
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I have to bite my tongue frequently when one of my friends talks about how they don't have any time or money anymore...then suddenly "we've decided to have another kid."

In the age of Facebook breeding has become a competition. Whoever can do it the most and enjoy it the least wins!
 
Screaming_Emu said:
I have to bite my tongue frequently when one of my friends talks about how they don't have any time or money anymore...then suddenly "we've decided to have another kid."

In the age of Facebook breeding has become a competition. Whoever can do it the most and enjoy it the least wins!
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You have the wrong friends.
 
SeatClutcher said:
Fault should only be found with those who choose to have them when they are unprepared either emotionally, psychologically, or financially. . .
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Raising kids is so different from any other experience one might have had. Even if one had a big hand in raising one's siblings or cousins I think many people will find themselves unprepared for it. Many of my friends have said that they didn't anticipate the demands of being a parent. Some adapted easily, others not so much. It's hard to know if one is equipped or not. Go with your instincts.

The financial demands seem to grow exponentially, and it may help to negotiate a budget with your spouse. I know many, many friends married to women who view many child-related expenses as mandatory that the guys see as completely unnecessary. There is a progression that goes like this: another stroller, a cute holiday outfit, tap lessons, four summer camps/year, limo rental for the prom, getting the hair done for college visits, a new BMW for college, outfitting the college apartment. You can see how a "mandatory" expense for a $350 stroller gradually becomes a "mandatory" expense for a $40,000 BMW. The groundwork to prevent this sort of lunacy has to be layed before the pregnancy. And if the horse is already out of the barn the only workable strategy seems to be to "go along to get along."

Speaking of pregnancy, it will bring some big changes in hormones, and that translates into big changes in behavior. The gal you married may be a completely different woman during and after pregnancy. I know more than a few guys who said their spouse underwent a large personality change. Reports of varying degrees of kookiness are common. I had a neighbor who, post childbirth, became so kooky it was impossible to have an intelligent conversation with her. I don't think there is any way of predicting the behavioral changes that pregnancy might cause, but it would be wise to anticipate it.

The person a child grows up to be is largely determined when the sperm meets the egg. Parents and the setting in which the kid grows up will definitely influence the end result, but more often than not won't determine it. I have seen great parents raise kids who went astray, and I have seen so-so parents raise kids who were remarkable. Imagine how heartbreaking it is for that great parent to see his kid struggle to fit into society or fail to be successful. If a person approaches parenting with the notion that their fulfillment and happiness will be solely determined by their children they may be tremendously disappointed. That's why it's so important to have a balanced life.

Having kids is a huge crapshoot. A person who has a lot of doubts or is ambivalent about it might want to put off the decision.

[edited to change "you," "you're," etc to "one," "one's," etc]
 
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Plata said:
Having kids is a huge crapshoot. A person who has a lot of doubts or is ambivalent about it might want to put off the decision or consider the fact that they just might not want to have a child, because not everyone does, nor should they feel like they should.
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FIFY

And agreed. My point exactly.

And while I get what you're saying about unexpected or almost impossible to anticipate expenses or emotional/psychological impact, what I disagree with is people who have children without thinking. At all. About anything but "I want!" and "So cute!" or even just "Well, this is what we do next, I guess."

Whether they will be 100% prepared in the long run or not, they should at the very least (this is a whole new life they're creating and will impact forever, after all) ask themselves (and then do a little bit of research and answer to the best of their ability):

1. Can I afford it?
2. Do I want my life to change completely?
3. Am I done doing what I want to do for myself outside of having children, things I may have to either stop or put off once a child is born?
4. Have I given real, serious thought to more than the mere idea of having a child or being a parent, or more than what the “cute little baby” will look like, and imagined further into the future – 2 years old, 5 years old, 8 years old, 13 – 17, each with its own challenges and parental responsibilities and stresses, not to mention the fact that parenting doesn't allow you to skip around to certain phases and ages but that it's all day, every day?
5. Am I prepared for the nature of my romantic relationship to change?
6. Do I give a patooey about any of this, or am I ignoring the realities of child-raising and just thinking, “Whatevs. I want a baby, and I do what I want”?
 
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