"But I've got a flow...?"

bLizZuE

Calling for engine starts en français
I'll be the first person to admit to you, that I don't have it all figured out.

I do know this much: don't think that because you have a flow to a mainline that you don't need to make yourself marketable.

I am currently going through upgrade training and there is a new-hire here that was former Mesaba that had a flow to Northwest. Current new-hires are being promised a 6.5 year flow to American. Up until very recently we had people on property that were told to expect a five year or less flow to American in 1997. Most of those guys that elected to flow did so about eleven years after the projected five years or less. That's a total of about 16 years, keep your shoes on.

Some of these guys are showing up without a degree but an attitude of "But I've got a flow, why would I want to get my degree?" It's seriously concerning to me. I think it's awesome that we have a contract that has a flow through program but I don't think we should be using that as the reason to stay. I have flown with several captains that expect to flow in 18 months or less and when I ask "you hitting up the job fairs?" they scoff. "But I've got a flow...?" they say. Often times it's cost, time off, preparation, work, etc., that becomes the excuse.

If you want that job, wherever it is, I highly recommend you do everything you can as often as you can towards reaching that goal. Job fairs, meet and greets, networking, getting your degree, volunteering, whatever it may be. Update the resume, reach out to those people you know, get your butt to that next job fair. Don't be sitting fat, dumb, and happy when the flow gets shut off or the industry changes and your flow slows to a trickle.

People on this forum gave me this exact advice a long time ago and I didn't really listen very well, so I guess I don't expect this to change the hearts and minds of anyone. I'm just putting it out there, I've been through it and I'm telling you, it's worth every second. Three and a half years of flying the line and working on my degree meant I was the super lame slam-clicker. But I got my degree done in under 4 years with a 3.6 GPA. Got the certificate in December of last year and started hitting job fairs in January.

I had a plan, and that plan was to go to every job fair until I had the job offer I wanted. I told myself that I will get hired in 2016. Thanks to a lot of amazing people doing way above and beyond what I ever could have imagined, I have the job offer that I've always wanted.

Don't let your projected flow lull you into complacency when it comes to your career and your future. I guess that's the point of this post.
 
Congrats on the offer! I'm a former Eagle guy who made a "lateral" move to Compass and am now off to greener pastures after making myself marketable and networking my ass off.

The "i'll flow in 18 months" guys (after being there for 15 years) were what lit a fire under me to get there quicker. The guy who got me hired at eagle 4 years ago and hasn't applied anywhere has the same mentality. He's actually probably in your upgrade class, assuming you're on the E175.

Good for you for shedding that mentality and working towards moving on. I'm sure you've realized the effort was well worth it.
 
I'll be the first person to admit to you, that I don't have it all figured out.

I do know this much: don't think that because you have a flow to a mainline that you don't need to make yourself marketable.

I am currently going through upgrade training and there is a new-hire here that was former Mesaba that had a flow to Northwest. Current new-hires are being promised a 6.5 year flow to American. Up until very recently we had people on property that were told to expect a five year or less flow to American in 1997. Most of those guys that elected to flow did so about eleven years after the projected five years or less. That's a total of about 16 years, keep your shoes on.

Some of these guys are showing up without a degree but an attitude of "But I've got a flow, why would I want to get my degree?" It's seriously concerning to me. I think it's awesome that we have a contract that has a flow through program but I don't think we should be using that as the reason to stay. I have flown with several captains that expect to flow in 18 months or less and when I ask "you hitting up the job fairs?" they scoff. "But I've got a flow...?" they say. Often times it's cost, time off, preparation, work, etc., that becomes the excuse.

If you want that job, wherever it is, I highly recommend you do everything you can as often as you can towards reaching that goal. Job fairs, meet and greets, networking, getting your degree, volunteering, whatever it may be. Update the resume, reach out to those people you know, get your butt to that next job fair. Don't be sitting fat, dumb, and happy when the flow gets shut off or the industry changes and your flow slows to a trickle.

People on this forum gave me this exact advice a long time ago and I didn't really listen very well, so I guess I don't expect this to change the hearts and minds of anyone. I'm just putting it out there, I've been through it and I'm telling you, it's worth every second. Three and a half years of flying the line and working on my degree meant I was the super lame slam-clicker. But I got my degree done in under 4 years with a 3.6 GPA. Got the certificate in December of last year and started hitting job fairs in January.

I had a plan, and that plan was to go to every job fair until I had the job offer I wanted. I told myself that I will get hired in 2016. Thanks to a lot of amazing people doing way above and beyond what I ever could have imagined, I have the job offer that I've always wanted.

Don't let your projected flow lull you into complacency when it comes to your career and your future. I guess that's the point of this post.
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I'll be the first person to admit to you, that I don't have it all figured out.

I do know this much: don't think that because you have a flow to a mainline that you don't need to make yourself marketable.

I am currently going through upgrade training and there is a new-hire here that was former Mesaba that had a flow to Northwest. Current new-hires are being promised a 6.5 year flow to American. Up until very recently we had people on property that were told to expect a five year or less flow to American in 1997. Most of those guys that elected to flow did so about eleven years after the projected five years or less. That's a total of about 16 years, keep your shoes on.

Some of these guys are showing up without a degree but an attitude of "But I've got a flow, why would I want to get my degree?" It's seriously concerning to me. I think it's awesome that we have a contract that has a flow through program but I don't think we should be using that as the reason to stay. I have flown with several captains that expect to flow in 18 months or less and when I ask "you hitting up the job fairs?" they scoff. "But I've got a flow...?" they say. Often times it's cost, time off, preparation, work, etc., that becomes the excuse.

If you want that job, wherever it is, I highly recommend you do everything you can as often as you can towards reaching that goal. Job fairs, meet and greets, networking, getting your degree, volunteering, whatever it may be. Update the resume, reach out to those people you know, get your butt to that next job fair. Don't be sitting fat, dumb, and happy when the flow gets shut off or the industry changes and your flow slows to a trickle.

People on this forum gave me this exact advice a long time ago and I didn't really listen very well, so I guess I don't expect this to change the hearts and minds of anyone. I'm just putting it out there, I've been through it and I'm telling you, it's worth every second. Three and a half years of flying the line and working on my degree meant I was the super lame slam-clicker. But I got my degree done in under 4 years with a 3.6 GPA. Got the certificate in December of last year and started hitting job fairs in January.

I had a plan, and that plan was to go to every job fair until I had the job offer I wanted. I told myself that I will get hired in 2016. Thanks to a lot of amazing people doing way above and beyond what I ever could have imagined, I have the job offer that I've always wanted.

Don't let your projected flow lull you into complacency when it comes to your career and your future. I guess that's the point of this post.

Great story and congrats on your job. One should never be content just to ride on a wave that may crash such as a flow. However, I as most still lack the degree. It is the crap wages that make me scared to continue a degree and get myself into more debt for a potential "keep doing what you're doing" at a job fair. The truth is, education and investments have barely panned out for people in this career, so spending even 15k to finish makes some of us nervous.

The coming years will tell if making yourself a bit more marketable will be the magic password to a lucrative career. I have met many regional Pilots with masters degrees still getting the TBNT letters, maybe there is more to their stories....who knows.. Again congrats on moving forward in your career!!
 
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I talked to a guy that pretty much dropped out of college and went to an American Eagle-ish carrier with a flow that a recruiter promised him a 3 year "flow".

Nine years later, he's in my buddies line at SouthernJets complaining about his lack of movement and why, after so many years, he didn't flow, didn't have a degree and therefore, was professionally shackled to his regional because he wasn't competitive.

A recruiter, especially at the regional level will tell you virtually anything. Teeeeeeeerust me on this one. Or not.
 
Great story and congrats on your job. One should never be content just to ride on a wave that may crash such as a flow. However, I as most still lack the degree. It is the crap wages that make me scared to continue a degree and get myself into more debt for a potential "keep doing what you're doing" at a job fair. The truth is, education and investments have barely panned out for people in this career, so spending even 15k to finish makes some of us nervous.

The coming years will tell if making yourself a bit more marketable will be the magic password to a lucrative career. I have met many regional Pilots with masters degrees still getting the TBNT letters, maybe there is more to their stories....who knows.. Again congrats on moving forward in your career!!
It most certainly can pan out and is worth doing. I'd rather get the degree since few get hired without them rather than hope someday airlines won't care if you have one or not.
 
I talked to a guy that pretty much dropped out of college and went to an American Eagle-ish carrier with a flow that a recruiter promised him a 3 year "flow".

Nine years later, he's in my buddies line at SouthernJets complaining about his lack of movement and why, after so many years, he didn't flow, didn't have a degree and therefore, was professionally shackled to his regional because he wasn't competitive.

A recruiter, especially at the regional level will tell you virtually anything. Teeeeeeeerust me on this one. Or not.
Umm not all. Teeeeeeeerust me.
 
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I talked to a guy that pretty much dropped out of college and went to an American Eagle-ish carrier with a flow that a recruiter promised him a 3 year "flow".

Nine years later, he's in my buddies line at SouthernJets complaining about his lack of movement and why, after so many years, he didn't flow, didn't have a degree and therefore, was professionally shackled to his regional because he wasn't competitive.

A recruiter, especially at the regional level will tell you virtually anything. Teeeeeeeerust me on this one. Or not.

But...I thought "being owned means everything!"
 
It most certainly can pan out and is worth doing. I'd rather get the degree since few get hired without them rather than hope someday airlines won't care if you have one or not.

Oh I get it, that degree is important to get. But it's not the magic ticket that some put so much weight on, it's just a basic check in the box to get a look with thousands that have the same.

I'm continuing my degree as cheap as possible online, out of pocket paying as I go. I don't think getting into debt and getting it done quick is the best idea for a regional pilot, but that is just my opinion. Same as the flight training, taking more time and paying as you go will allow you to eat that first year or two on that RJ instead of paying 800 a month in student loans while making 1600 a month.

I chose a regional with zero flow and likely to never have a flow with any airline, so I am not sure what or how I will make it out. But again, I do agree it won't be until I have that piece of paper saying I spent yet even more money to prove I'm motivated enough to be at mainline. A few friends keep telling me they won't need their degrees because of flow, it will be interesting to see if that becomes true for them or not... I'm just not willing to test the same idea lol
 
It seems like there's about as many guys who got the succeasful flow/flow'esk program as regional FOs that made it to mainline without upgrading.

*Shrug* works for some, but it's not the majority.
 
I have not seen the flow language at our company. The mainline had no input into the agreement between the flow carriers and mainline. I think it is that way at most major carriers. The language however heavily favors the major and they are under no commitment to hire if conditions and economics don't support it.

A flow number is just a promise that if everything is OK and we are hiring, then we will take you. Just wait until the next downturn to find out how strong this flow language is.
 
I'm the opposite. I'm currently about 220 numbers from flowing at PDT. Because of this I'm not super excited about paying for job fairs. With the amount of hiring, I'm content with either waiting to flow in 3 years at captain pay, or getting a call straight from airline apps. My goal was mainline by 30 years old. So we shall see
 
I understand and agree with the OP to a great extent, but frankly if I were interested in AA more than other carriers and less than two years away from flowing, what is the point of dishing out thousands for job fairs??
 
I'm the opposite. I'm currently about 220 numbers from flowing at PDT. Because of this I'm not super excited about paying for job fairs. With the amount of hiring, I'm content with either waiting to flow in 3 years at captain pay, or getting a call straight from airline apps. My goal was mainline by 30 years old. So we shall see


SWA and Delta were free.
 
I'm the opposite. I'm currently about 220 numbers from flowing at PDT. Because of this I'm not super excited about paying for job fairs. With the amount of hiring, I'm content with either waiting to flow in 3 years at captain pay, or getting a call straight from airline apps. My goal was mainline by 30 years old. So we shall see

Whoosh.
 
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