Broken Airnet Crew in DAY - Pilot Pushing
- Thread starter ZapBrannigan
- Start date
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Please never fly for an airline. You're an accident waiting to happen with this kind of attitude. Pilots shouldn't be pushing their limits, they should be respecting them. Your attitude belongs on the football field, not in an airplane.
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
How are you supposed to learn if you don't push your limits? You'd never have soloed. Ridiculous. You should push your limits, and also know how far you can safely push them. You don't want to be uncomfortable with your safety, but you do want to be able learn new things.
I hope you never fly for an airline with an attitude like that (ohh wait you do). Your attitude leads to complacency, which is probably more dangerous than anything else you can do an airplane. The minute you start forgetting that you should be trying to learn, and move forward in your flying skills is the minute you become a statistic waiting to happen. Every heard of "Freight Dawg Sindrome" (A shout out to the Austin Collins webpage for that). Push yourself to become better, or you will not. You will sit, forever stagnant, never able to learn new things, and will probably auger something in.
I think some of you are taking that statement out of context. If you never pushed yourself you would have never practiced stalls in primary training, you would have never done spin training for your CFI, you would have never flown your first approach down to 1800rvr. I'm a firm believer that a professional pilot goes to the limit of their aircraft and what regulations allow and no further. It's the job of each pilot to know these limitations so that he/she is not hindered by anything and also doesn't exceed them and compromises safety.
Quite possible. And I say that because ...
... I consider that to all be part of the "personal limitation" equation.
I suppose I could have read it a little too literally.
-mini
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
I didn't solo until I felt perfectly comfortable doing so. That's not pushing a limit, that's respecting one. I also didn't sign off students for solo until I felt that it wouldn't push their limits either. Limits should be respected in aviation.
I don't know about you, but I didn't feel that I was pushing any limits when I did any of those things. When I learned stalls, I had an instructor with me that was perfectly comfortable with stalls and spin recovery. Same thing when I did my spin training. I wouldn't have done them without an instructor until after I felt comfortable with them. I did tons of practice approaches down to 1800rvr in the sim and under the hood before I ever did one in real life. Again, that's about making sure you're comfortable and not pushing your limits.
Look, this all comes down to one thing: flying an airplane with a broken item that isn't deferred is blatantly illegal. If you're "pushing limits" on something like this, then you have no business flying airplanes. Go push papers for a living so you don't get me or someone else killed.
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
Dammmmmnnnnnnnnnn this thread has gotten out of hand. Why is it that at about 3-4 pages the prevalency of personal attacks seems to skyrocket?
The ppragman Principle:
As the pages on a particular jetcareers thread approach 5 the probability of a personal attack approaches 1.
Plus, where do you get off telling people they have no business flying an airplane? Are you the authority that must be the standard for professional piloting? I see your qualifications are fairly impressive, you have a bunch of total time and a few types, that's all well and dandy, but is this the way you communicate with your peers in the cockpit? The FO comes up with a suggestion and its "F-you! It's my way or the high way! You're going to get someone killed, you have no business being a pilot, gear up!" First I can't believe that you have the gall to say "this industry needs an enema," then spew the kind of blatant insults you do, but I guess irony isn't something that everybody gets, or part of your company profiles which you probably follow to the letter.
So you're telling me that when you first soloed you were perfectly comfortable with the airplane? That you got into the thing with no trepidation and fear that you were about to hurl yourself into the air? You must have been the picture of Lindbergh, silk scarf tied loosely around your neck, you climbed into the 150 with a smile on your face. "Nothing is different this time, nothing out of the ordinary," you thought. BS And I call it bigtime on this. The moment you stop being slightly uncomfortable in aviation, you should quit. You should always be slightly on edge, worried about the perpetual "what ifs" in our industry. But if that's how you want to fly, fine, don't be a critical thinker, I don't fly airTran anyway.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
That comment wasn't a personal attack unless you are someone who flies illegal airplanes. Do you? I certainly hope not.
I've never had to communicate with someone in the cockpit this way, because I never had an FO try to tell me that we should fly an illegal airplane when I wrote it up. If an FO had ever argued with me about such a thing, then he would have gotten a lengthly lecture from me and from Pro Standards.
Are you saying that you don't follow your company profiles? Do you think of the company manuals as "suggestions?"
I was perfectly comfortable with what I would be doing on that solo flight, yes. Flying a few times around the pattern isn't exactly nerve racking, even for a first solo.
I exercise critical thinking skills when critical thinking is appropriate. Critical thinking is not appropriate when dealing with broken airplanes. We have an MEL and a book of FARs that clearly directs us how to act in such cases. Critical thinking is unnecessary. It's very simple, really: airplane broke, call maintenance. Where is the critical thinking necessary here?
If you weren't completely comfortable with the airplane and the task to be accomplished (a few landings and trips around the pattern), your CFI had no business signing you off for your first solo.
CFI-101.
-mini
Personally, I don't think of "personal growth" as pushing ones' limits so much as I think it is a matter of expanding ones' limits.
"Pushing" your limits means, to me, that you're going over the edge of what you can do. In a case of flying an airplane, that's not safe. You should never attempt to do something in an airplane that you don't feel completely safe doing.
"Expanding" your limits is learning how to do something new, but going about it in a safe, controlled way. Getting an instrument rating is expanding your limits, you're learning something new and stepping into new experiences but yet still being safe and not going "over the edge".
"Pushing" your limits means, to me, that you're going over the edge of what you can do. In a case of flying an airplane, that's not safe. You should never attempt to do something in an airplane that you don't feel completely safe doing.
"Expanding" your limits is learning how to do something new, but going about it in a safe, controlled way. Getting an instrument rating is expanding your limits, you're learning something new and stepping into new experiences but yet still being safe and not going "over the edge".
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
If you aren't nervous the first time you fly an airplane by yourself, you don't apreciate the gravity of the situation.
I'm both confident and nervous every time I solo a student.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
I was never once nervous when I signed off a student to solo, even for their solo cross countries. I never understood the CFIs who were pacing around the lobby waiting for a student to get back from a cross country. If you're that nervous, then you shouldn't have signed the kid off.
Boris Badenov
This is no laughing matter.
This is hysterical. You weren't nervous the first time you flew an airplane by yourself? ahahahahhaha. You bunch of cards. Is Alan Funt hiding in the bushes somewhere? Some of you are so full of yourselves you should poop limbs.
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
I think I just pissed myself laughing!
Really? That's the most foolish thing I've ever heard. Never turn off your critical thinking, you will die if you do.
And it depends on the situation whether I fly the company profs to the letter. Company profile at my old company said 180Kts in the climb, you'll never make it out of the icing at that speed, so you pitch for the book icing penetration speed of 140. My current company says 100 on down wind, 90 on base, 80 kts on final, sometimes, if you want to take care of the engine, these speeds are not possible, so no, it depends very much on the situation whether I fly to the letter of the company profs.
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
Seems like most of the threads these days degenerate into that
