Broken Airnet Crew in DAY - Pilot Pushing

ZapBrannigan

Old School
I ran across an Airnet Baron crew in DAY this week.

The Captain had just written up (I believe) at CHT gauge and was concerned that he would be called on the carpet. Apparently he had been disciplined in the past for NOT writing things up... and then disciplined recently for writing TOO much up.

I truly felt bad for this guy who was clearly between a rock and a hard place. It brought back some really bad memories of when I flew freight in Bonanzas and C402s in North Carolina in 1995. Pilot pushing is no joke.

Incidentally, the first officer was a bright young woman named Sara. She had been with AirNet since she had 300 hours and currently had around 700. Seemed to me like a lot of time in the right seat of a piston twin, but she was enjoying herself. She was not interested in instructing and this was a time-building method that worked for her. She did indicate some concern over "upgrading" and flying single-pilot, in all weather, etc... by herself.

Sara's boyfriend is about to be furloughed from PSA.

It's tough out there right now. My best wishes to this Airnet crew. It is sad to see the industry suck the enthusiasm from young pilots so early in their careers.
 

jwp_145

GhostRider in the Sky
It is definitely tough... the flight instructing market went from not having half of what was needed, to resumes piling up on my boss' desk. I'm just riding out the tough times as a flight instructor hoping that when the next gangbuster boom hits I'll be primed and ready.
 

surreal1221

Well-Known Member
Unfortunately Zap, some of us here may not be too versed in this term "Pilot pushing."

Hopefully the crew was treated like professionals by their managerial staff. Haven't heard a lot of negative things in regards to Airnet management, but they did just get a new CEO.

Good luck
 

ZapBrannigan

Old School
Pilot Pushing:
The act of management requiring a pilot or flight crew to continue operations into a situation that is (or is potentially) unsafe, illegal, contrary to published company operating procedures or in conflict with PIC judgement. The threat of discipline or termination may be used to influence the decision.

PS - Contrary to FARs is illegal.
 

mnixon

Well-Known Member
I don't get why people feel intimidated by this. Keep your records people and keep your nose clean and you have nothing to worry about.
 

BobDDuck

Island Bus Driver
First off, you were in DAY and you didn't tell me?

Secondly, I flew with her boyfriend last week.

Small world.
 

MikeFavinger

Hubschrauber Flieger
For what it's worth, this never even came close to happening to me at Airnet. I was never pushed. I never got in trouble for writing things up. I didn't get in trouble for leaving broken airplanes stranded at non-maintenance bases.

Not saying it doesn't happen - I really don't know. But I did hear a lot of young pilots talk about their perceptions that of they didn't "push it," they'd get in trouble, and I'm not sure where that comes from. Some could believe too much in that freight dawg mentality and act like they're being pushed, or the CPs could actually be doing this selectively. I'm sure other Starcheckers will chime in and maybe help clear things up.
 

ZapBrannigan

Old School
First off, you were in DAY and you didn't tell me?
Sorry. Was only there for about 3 hours. Just enough time to grab a bite to eat and hit the road before McCain showed up. The FBO was a mess with police, secret service, and camera crews from the news networks.

I guess Sara's boyfriend had an XNA overnight last week and was whining. Can't believe they still put you guys up at the Wingate. How are you even supposed to find something to eat? Gave her my card so he can call me if he ends up in town again.

I feel like I should start a PSA Pilot shuttle service to rescue crews from that hotel and bring them to civilization for a meal.
 

ZapBrannigan

Old School
For what it's worth, this never even came close to happening to me at Airnet. I was never pushed.
In fairness I am just repeating the story as it was told to me by the PIC. You know how it is when you only get half the story. I've never heard a bad thing about Airnet before Thursday.
 

jrh

Well-Known Member
Life is crazy. I interviewed at Airnet in May, back when they were still hiring, and didn't get the job because of my sim performance. At the time I was slightly bummed and unsure of what I would do for work in the future.

Now I'm in a position that has better pay, flexibility, schedule, and general QOL than I could have ever had at Airnet. I'm never pushed to do anything I'm not comfortable with and I really enjoy going in to work.

I look at what my life would be like had I gotten hired at Airnet and I'm thankful I didn't.

So I guess my point is, hopefully a lot of the pilots having a hard time right now will somehow be in a better position because of it in the future. Maybe furloughs at one company will open the door to better opportunities elsewhere. Maybe getting "stuck" at Airnet will somehow put them in a better position in the future than if they had kept moving up during the good times.

Or maybe I'm overly optimistic. I don't know. I'm just a glass-half-full kinda guy.
 

MikeFavinger

Hubschrauber Flieger
In fairness I am just repeating the story as it was told to me by the PIC. You know how it is when you only get half the story. I've never heard a bad thing about Airnet before Thursday.
Oh I know... and I'm not saying at all the guy wasn't telling the truth. Just giving my perspective is all.

(And people say plenty bad about Airnet - they just don't say it here. ;))
 

mikecweb

Well-Known Member
Sarah was an intern at Airnet. Good girl she debated going to regionals at the end of the hiring spree. She's getting lots of good experience in the right seat of that baron.
 

mikecweb

Well-Known Member
Unfortunately Zap, some of us here may not be too versed in this term "Pilot pushing."

Hopefully the crew was treated like professionals by their managerial staff. Haven't heard a lot of negative things in regards to Airnet management, but they did just get a new CEO.

Good luck
I have never ever seen our management pressure pilots into anything. Infact many of the guys that have been here for a few years think they are too conservative. The new CEO will have NO say on how we fly every night.
Once you guys get out of the airlines you'll see it's a different atmosphere.
 

dc3flyer

Well-Known Member
The Captain had just written up (I believe) at CHT gauge and was concerned that he would be called on the carpet. Apparently he had been disciplined in the past for NOT writing things up... and then disciplined recently for writing TOO much up.

Okay, seriously, was this at the end of the day? Was there another plane there he could swap for? If I were a chief pilot and someone wanted to ground an airplane somewhere because of a CHT gauge, I think I would have a little talk with him too. Obviously not give him any disciplinary action, but I would at least talk to the guy. I don't believe anyone should allow themselves to be pushed, but you also have to use a little bit of PIC common sense!
 

ZapBrannigan

Old School
I'm not sure that was it. He said something about the engine shutting down after he started it or something... I wasn't paying much attention to him. (she was cute, he was not. lol)
 

minitour

New Member
Okay, seriously, was this at the end of the day? Was there another plane there he could swap for? If I were a chief pilot and someone wanted to ground an airplane somewhere because of a CHT gauge, I think I would have a little talk with him too. Obviously not give him any disciplinary action, but I would at least talk to the guy. I don't believe anyone should allow themselves to be pushed, but you also have to use a little bit of PIC common sense!
If it can't be MEL'd then the plane has to be grounded, it isn't airworthy.

You'd really have a problem with that if you were a chief pilot?:rolleyes: Sure glad you aren't my chief pilot. If you don't want planes grounded with a broken CHT gage, figure out how to get the CHT on the MEL.

FWIW, I've never heard of anything like that happening here. Not saying it doesn't or hasn't, but I haven't heard about it. I've grounded plenty of airplanes for "little" stuff. If it ain't airworthy, it ain't airworthy. The fed that ramps you and starts some certificate action against you for flying an un-airworthy aircraft won't care that it's just a "little thing".

I guess I value my certificates more than some.

I'm going to guess that it ended up not being a big deal. If it was, I've been hanging out since Wednesday and could be in Dayton in...30 minutes(?) with a replacement airplane. There are others here as well, even earlier in the week.

-mini
 

Number1atNumber2

Tries to keep it fun.
Much easier said than done.
Big time :yeahthat: !


Some places are better some are worse than others. I've always gotten the impression that Airnet was in the 'better' category. Sometimes bosses can get upset about write ups, espically when pilots do stupid ones. At the flight school I CFI'ed at renters could squawk planes, and one dude put a squawk down that the paint job was aweful. Legit or not, it grounded the plane, and I was rather amazed my boss didn't hit the roof when he saw it. Personally I wanted to go punch the renter in the face over that stunt. Now if that renter dude was an employee, you'd still have to be careful about firing him for writing a plane up (I'm speaking purely from a legal standpoint here).


It's important to not be over sensitive if the chief pilot gets pissed and blows up at you. If they are decent at all, they'll get over it.
But I will agree that being disiplined for doing a write up is something else entirely. And raising a big stink over that is well within a pilot's rights. Hell, I'd enourage it. It's your butt and your ticket on the line, not some dude on the ground at a desk. Just choose your battles wisely.

Pilot pushing isn't limited to freight dogs either. We all know there are a lot of d-bag companies out there that are probably not above replacing a pilot for 'other reasons' when the money-grubber management is tired of seeing lost productivity and excessvie write ups, legit or no... In the end you don't want to work for a company like that anyways, but things can get trickey when jobs are scarce and money is tight.
 

mikecweb

Well-Known Member
If it can't be MEL'd then the plane has to be grounded, it isn't airworthy.

You'd really have a problem with that if you were a chief pilot?:rolleyes: Sure glad you aren't my chief pilot. If you don't want planes grounded with a broken CHT gage, figure out how to get the CHT on the MEL.

FWIW, I've never heard of anything like that happening here. Not saying it doesn't or hasn't, but I haven't heard about it. I've grounded plenty of airplanes for "little" stuff. If it ain't airworthy, it ain't airworthy. The fed that ramps you and starts some certificate action against you for flying an un-airworthy aircraft won't care that it's just a "little thing".

I guess I value my certificates more than some.

I'm going to guess that it ended up not being a big deal. If it was, I've been hanging out since Wednesday and could be in Dayton in...30 minutes(?) with a replacement airplane. There are others here as well, even earlier in the week.

-mini
Thats great and all but flying around a 30 year old jet using your rational I could ground an airplane everyday.
 
Top