Boeing opens S.C plant . flips NLRB an exclamation point.

Re: Boeing opens S.C plant . flips NLRB an exclamation point

dasleben said:
The top tax bracket? My friend, we're not talking about top brackets at all. We're talking about your income tax bracket, along with the rest of us in the middle class. Those in the top brackets can still afford to spend, even with high tax rates for them (which I still don't agree with in principle); raise taxes to 40%+ for those of us who don't make millions each year, and watch what happens.
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Ok, now we're getting somewhere. I agree that the middle class shouldn't be taxed more, but the middle class doesn't pay a whole of tax right now. I make six figures, and my effective tax rate is only 15%. I think I'm doing just fine with that. But, I do think upper class tax rates need to be jacked way the hell up.

For those who don't know, the top tax rate prior to Kennedy was 90%. He cut it to 70%, which was the rate in 1981 when Reagan came into office. At the end of the Clinton administration, the top rate was 39%.

If you guys want Europe, move to Europe. Have fun with that.
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No thanks. I'll just continue voting for people who I think will make America better.
 
Re: Boeing opens S.C plant . flips NLRB an exclamation point

And again...because ATN can't read my posts...

The rates he cites are correct. What he isn't telling you is what the various deductions and tax rules were at the time, what loopholes existed, etc. He is giving you the half of the narrative that serves his argument without any context.

Gee...the guy should be in the labor movement or something.
 
Re: Boeing opens S.C plant . flips NLRB an exclamation point

WacoFan said:
And again...because ATN can't read my posts...

The rates he cites are correct. What he isn't telling you is what the various deductions and tax rules were at the time, what loopholes existed, etc. He is giving you the half of the narrative that serves his argument without any context.

Gee...the guy should be in the labor movement or something.
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Ok, so I am curious now. What were the "effective" tax rates during the times ATN is referring to. Your issue seems to be that he is quoting absolute and not effective rates.
 
Re: Boeing opens S.C plant . flips NLRB an exclamation point

darrenf said:
Ok, so I am curious now. What were the "effective" tax rates during the times ATN is referring to. Your issue seems to be that he is quoting absolute and not effective rates.
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I'd be very interested if he had anything but anecdotal non-sourced material. Because everything I could find on the subject, and I haven't just started looking now, reflects tax rates not a study of the burden. Such studies are available but either I couldn't find any for that time period or they only became popular in the 80s and beyond.
 
Re: Boeing opens S.C plant . flips NLRB an exclamation point

ATN_Pilot said:
Ok, now we're getting somewhere. I agree that the middle class shouldn't be taxed more, but the middle class doesn't pay a whole of tax right now. I make six figures, and my effective tax rate is only 15%. I think I'm doing just fine with that. But, I do think upper class tax rates need to be jacked way the hell up.

For those who don't know, the top tax rate prior to Kennedy was 90%. He cut it to 70%, which was the rate in 1981 when Reagan came into office. At the end of the Clinton administration, the top rate was 39%.
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I guess I simply don't understand: It seems unethical to me to take more money from people just because they have more of it. While some may have gotten their money through unscrupulous means, many have been entrepreneurs who have built up their wealth through actual hard work at great personal risk. Personally, I think that should be commended, not punished through higher tax brackets. Since I haven't put forth that amount of work myself, I simply don't expect money from people who have. It seems, well, immoral.

ATN_Pilot said:
No thanks. I'll just continue voting for people who I think will make America better.
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And I as well. :beer:







(FLUSH!)
 
Re: Boeing opens S.C plant . flips NLRB an exclamation point

darrenf said:
Ok, so I am curious now. What were the "effective" tax rates during the times ATN is referring to. Your issue seems to be that he is quoting absolute and not effective rates.
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In one of his posts he cites his "effective" rate of 15%. In the posts quoting the high tax brackets, he quotes absolute rates. This is an inconsistency.

The effective rates varied then as now of course. There were significant advantages to investing in real estate, energy limited partnerships - various financial products that offered tax shelter were legal and available then - it is really a large subject. The idea that you can throw out those high rates at that time and imply that the rules were even close to what they are now is completely laughable.
 
Re: Boeing opens S.C plant . flips NLRB an exclamation point

ATN_Pilot said:
No thanks. I'll just continue voting for people who I think will make America better.
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Maybe someday you will learn that individuals acting in their own interest, not elected officials making political decisions with YOUR money, are what make America better.
 
Re: Boeing opens S.C plant . flips NLRB an exclamation point

O&M said:
Because not everyone is entitled to keep what they earn and create.
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Or maybe, just maybe, because he realizes that NO one achieves that level of income on their own. It requires a society, and people willing to work with you in order to reach those levels. And what is taxation if it isn't to maintain that society and environment that we can exploit to reach those levels.

On a side note, are you capable of ever responding to an opponents post without misrepresenting their position?
 
Re: Boeing opens S.C plant . flips NLRB an exclamation point

WacoFan said:
In one of his posts he cites his "effective" rate of 15%. In the posts quoting the high tax brackets, he quotes absolute rates. This is an inconsistency.
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Fair enough.

WacoFan said:
The effective rates varied then as now of course. There were significant advantages to investing in real estate, energy limited partnerships - various financial products that offered tax shelter were legal and available then - it is really a large subject. The idea that you can throw out those high rates at that time and imply that the rules were even close to what they are now is completely laughable.
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So, am I to assume that no one has data on what the effective rates were? If so, then how can anyone make the argument for or against, that tax rates create/kill jobs? Wouldn't that be laughable as well?
 
Re: Boeing opens S.C plant . flips NLRB an exclamation point

darrenf said:
Or maybe, just maybe, because he realizes that NO one achieves that level of income on their own. It requires a society, and people willing to work with you in order to reach those levels.
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Absolutely true, but not everyone is equal in terms of production. Should an aircraft cleaner make the same amount as the pilots? Should the pilots share their money because the cleaner contributes some small amount of work toward the completion of the flight?
 
Re: Boeing opens S.C plant . flips NLRB an exclamation point

dasleben said:
The top tax bracket? My friend, we're not talking about top brackets at all. We're talking about your income tax bracket, along with the rest of us in the middle class. Those in the top brackets can still afford to spend, even with high tax rates for them (which I still don't agree with in principle); raise taxes to 40%+ for those of us who don't make millions each year, and watch what happens.

If you guys want Europe, move to Europe. Have fun with that.
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You seem to not realize that the older tax brackets had a lot more brackets and therefore gradient. Sure in 1962 the top bracket was 91% but that was for all income above 400,000 which in 2010 dollars is $2.85mil/year. To give you an idea of how many more brackets there are, I just told you the top one was 400k. If our top tax bracket today was in 1962 dollars it would be about 50k.

The 40% tax bracket in 1962 (when JFK was president) started at: $12,000 - $14,000 when filing singly and $24,000 - $28,000 when filing jointly which corrected to inflation is Single: $85.5k - $99.7k or Married: $171,000 - $199.9k

The 72% tax bracket for married families was an income in 2010 dollars of: 627k - $712k
 
Re: Boeing opens S.C plant . flips NLRB an exclamation point

dasleben said:
Absolutely true, but not everyone is equal in terms of production. Should an aircraft cleaner make the same amount as the pilots? Should the pilots share their money because the cleaner contributes some small amount of work toward the completion of the flight?
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Who is saying they should make the same? If you take more from the society we have created, as a percentage, it seems fair that you should also put more back in as a percentage. No one is saying if you earn more you should pay so much that you effectively keep (less/or the same) than someone who earns less.

And let's be honest here, pilots and aircraft cleaners are most likely in the same tax bracket. :(
 
Re: Boeing opens S.C plant . flips NLRB an exclamation point

I guess I'll simply never understand the liberal economic outlook. :)

I don't think in terms of taking from society; I think in terms of producing for society, even if the work produced is simply flying an airplane from A to B.
 
Re: Boeing opens S.C plant . flips NLRB an exclamation point

dasleben said:
I guess I'll simply never understand the liberal economic outlook. :)

I don't think in terms of taking from society; I think in terms of producing for society, even if the work produced is simply flying an airplane from A to B.
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If you truly believe that, then you should have no qualms about working for free. After all, how could you possibly produce more for society then by volunteering ALL your efforts.
 
Re: Boeing opens S.C plant . flips NLRB an exclamation point

darrenf said:
If you truly believe that, then you should have no qualms about working for free. After all, how could you possibly produce more for society then by volunteering ALL your efforts.
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Maybe I'm slow tonight; I'm not following your argument. Yes, I have qualms with working for free.
 
Re: Boeing opens S.C plant . flips NLRB an exclamation point

dasleben said:
Maybe I'm slow tonight; I'm not following your argument. Yes, I have qualms with working for free.
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You are in the service industry, so that means you produce a profit not an actual product. Profit is revenue minus cost. If you worked for free then you would produce more.
 
Re: Boeing opens S.C plant . flips NLRB an exclamation point

SpiraMirabilis said:
You are in the service industry, so that means you produce a profit not an actual product. Profit is revenue minus cost. If you worked for free then you would produce more.
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Ummmm...okay. I still prefer to be paid accordingly for my work, thanks. You know, that whole "driving the economy" thing. :)
 
Re: Boeing opens S.C plant . flips NLRB an exclamation point

O&M said:
Because not everyone is entitled to keep what they earn and create.
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Everyone needs to contribute to the society that we have here in America. Those with greater means should make a bigger contribution.

dasleben said:
I guess I simply don't understand: It seems unethical to me to take more money from people just because they have more of it.
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Someone has to pay for everything in this country. The military, the constant wars, the infrastructure, the safety nets, etc. Somebody has to pay for it. Someone who makes $100 million per year has much more capability to contribute a slightly higher percentage than someone who makes $100k per year. I'm sorry, but it's just common sense. Forget ideology and think pragmatism. Ideology is based on preconceived notions, not reality.

O&M said:
Maybe someday you will learn that individuals acting in their own interest, not elected officials making political decisions with YOUR money, are what make America better.
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Actually, both make America better.

darrenf said:
So, am I to assume that no one has data on what the effective rates were? If so, then how can anyone make the argument for or against, that tax rates create/kill jobs? Wouldn't that be laughable as well?
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In reality, we probably have more loopholes today even with the lower tax rates than there were in years past with the higher rates.
 
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