Bill to Privatize US ATC...

MikeD said:
One ought to get something tangible for the money they spend. There’s a fine line between free market and fleecing. At the end of the day, they charge what they charge, because carriers pay it. Simple as that. How they do it on a ramp that is owned by the government, im not sure.
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That happens just about everywhere though. Most facilities are owned by an extension of the government (city, county, state) and leased to the FBO.

One place I go for $100 hamburgers is city owned, leased to an FBO but the arrangement allows for free parking and a walk through fence to the restaurant. There’s even 121 service on the field at a small terminal on the same ramp, although clearly marked and segregated from the restaurant.
 
@SteveC

Given that this thread is now a necropost starting from Post 51, should we maybe make a new thread from there if we're discussing things?
 
Roger Roger said:
I’d like you to elaborate on this as well. The elements of it I’m familiar with, as well as what I’ve skimmed from wiki, seem like they work fine and were a needed upgrade. Once again the biggest issues seem to be grift by for-profit contractors, and reluctance by NAS users to upgrade and participate.
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The budget was blown up, it has failed to remain on target for milestones, and it will have less of an impact than was originally stated. The FAA is also fudging numbers to game certain milestones.

The DOT published this report earlier this year: https://www.oig.dot.gov/sites/default/files/library-items/FAA NextGen Status Report_4.30.24.pdf
Roger Roger said:
Maybe, but at the time they were privatized they still served a useful function and Lockheed took them from doing that well to being absolutely • useless in a matter of months.

I dunno, working for an airline it sure seems like we (and all our competitors) have those three problems in abundance. I’m eternally skeptical of privatization fixing any of them.
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Do you think we would have this under NASA without contracting with the private sector?


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYUr-5PYA7s&themeRefresh=1
As I said earlier, I won't pretend to have the answers, but a private/government hybrid solution has been implemented in other countries. It is worth investigating. It's clear something is very wrong with the current system. If that could be fixed, fix it. If a company like Boeing were put in charge of the privatization of ATC, we're all hosed.
 
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killbilly said:
@SteveC

Given that this thread is now a necropost starting from Post 51, should we maybe make a new thread from there if we're discussing things?
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I’m not sure I’m following your suggestion. This feels like a natural continuation of the original - unless I missed something in my skimming(?).
 
if you work for a corporation, have a TINDR account or pay taxes, welcome to ’fudging numbers”.

No one lost THAT much much through Crowdstrike, you’re not 6’2 and that junk you threw in the collection bin with used clothes and your kids obsolete toys sure and hell didn’t total $800.

Thinking a Federal agency is going to be any different is unrealistic.
 
CoffeeIcePapers said:
If a company like Boeing were put in charge of the privatization of ATC, we're all hosed.
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Especially given the incoming administration, do you see any remotely realistic chance that the above doesn’t happen during a privatization scheme?Again, the problems at air traffic are because it’s already run too much like a business. Too many idiot VPs of so and so, and refusing to listen to the rank and file re: amount of work vs. manpower available. Just like every single aviation business I’ve worked for. What really needs to happen is the FAA and DOT need to put their foot down on traffic at certain facilities and limit slots etc to something more appropriate to the staffing. That’ll never happen, because again, they’re operating like a business where pushing the tin, not safety, is priority.
 
CoffeeIcePapers said:
The budget was blown up, it has failed to remain on target for milestones, and it will have less of an impact than was originally stated. The FAA is also fudging numbers to game certain milestones.

The DOT published this report earlier this year: https://www.oig.dot.gov/sites/default/files/library-items/FAA NextGen Status Report_4.30.24.pdf
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I’m not sure of the particulars here, but I’d bet a fast food burger of your choice that the cost overruns are because of •bag for profit corporations who submit unrealistically low bids with generous change order clauses. Then, because of shortsighted efficiency and budgetary policies, managers are forced to take the low bid and pay out the nose when to no one’s surprise, the bid was unrealistic. BTW this is based on real world experience with an FAA Next Gen project in which everyone on the front lines knew the winning bidder was never going to be able to deliver, but they submitted a better and shinier bid than Garmin, and then ran very late, upcharged, and delivered a substandard product that required multiple hacks to make it work.
CoffeeIcePapers said:
Do you think we would have this under NASA without contracting with the private sector?


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYUr-5PYA7s&themeRefresh=1
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Building a rocket is different than providing a vital government service. But yes, if we had prioritized NASA funding the last few decades like we did in the space race we’d probably be able to have something like this without the billionaire grift and stupid •posting.
 
SteveC said:
I’m not sure I’m following your suggestion. This feels like a natural continuation of the original - unless I missed something in my skimming(?).
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There is an eight year gap in the thread. The people having the conversation right now would very likely not be having the same kind of conversation that they would have been having eight years ago. Link the threads if you need to, but I think separation is in order for anyone coming to this from the outside.
 
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