ATI

[ppragman]

That's for sure, and if one union would represent everyone that would be ideal. But in this case one union took an opportunity to hurt another pilot group, and then doubled down to hurt every other ACMI pilot. That's a perfect example of the kind of Union politics that leads to criticism of a group that should be selfish in improving life for all of us

I think all pilots should strongly consider joining the IWW. One big union!

 

[BigZ]

And of course these things get prolix and complex. But IMHO, the whole awful situation is a glaring neon advertisement for why A) ALPA should represent regionals, non-skeds, and associated scum as vigorously as they do the legacies, and B) Said scum should simmer down just a tick and give ALPA a chance to turn the rudder. Because they really need to turn the rudder. It's in everyone's best interest. To wit, one bargaining Entity, one level of safety, one organization with which to contend. They're risking another RJDC, and in this market, that's inexcusable.

Thanks everyone for the helpful insight. I appreciate the background information, and agree that it would not be a good fit at this time.

I am an Envoy captain whom was displaced out of base (where I live) to the left seat. I am really enjoying the challenge and rewards of the upgrade...but am really tired of commuting to reserve...with no end in sight and don’t see getting back to my home base for a while. In my old seat, I was getting lines with 16 days off a month, now I have 11, and Envoy reserve is not commutable on the front end (some times not even on the back end).

My wife and I think that the ACMI life would be a good fit, and if brown or purple never work out, there is comfort in knowing that a career could be made at an ACMI.

Thanks again!

Bid's coming up, so, unless you took a seat lock for the extra few grand, try to bid out to another equipment/base first.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

So much BS in this thread. ALPA instructed their members to not take part in an illegal strike. And then ALPA was vindicated by the judge. If the IBT wants ALPA’s support, stop being criminals.

 

[Boris Badenov]

OK, I see that side of it, too, ATN. But it wasn't exactly news that this was a possibility. Don't you think that ALPA could have done a better job of having a conversation about it rather than just saying "cross the line, it's illegal"? Again, from what little I know on the subject, it seems like ALPA representing everyone would be the best thing for everyone. But it's not like the Teamsters got in to the shops they did for no reason at all. They got in because certain pilot groups felt as though their interests weren't being represented by ALPA. I stand open to correction on this...it's not in my wheelhouse at all, but I do think this is an opportunity to learn rather than everyone predictably winding up screaming at each other in ALL CAPS.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

OK, I see that side of it, too, ATN. But it wasn't exactly news that this was a possibility. Don't you think that ALPA could have done a better job of having a conversation about it rather than just saying "cross the line, it's illegal"? Again, from what little I know on the subject, it seems like ALPA representing everyone would be the best thing for everyone. But it's not like the Teamsters got in to the shops they did for no reason at all. They got in because certain pilot groups felt as though their interests weren't being represented by ALPA. I stand open to correction on this...it's not in my wheelhouse at all, but I do think this is an opportunity to learn rather than everyone predictably winding up screaming at each other in ALL CAPS.

Unbelievable. A criminal enterprise that has been a criminal enterprise for decades directs its members to engage in a crime, and you point the finger at ALPA. Can’t make this s—- up.

 

[z987k]

there is comfort in knowing that a career could be made at an ACMI.

Thanks again!

A career? No. A crap job, yes.
I cannot imagine doing 25+ years at ACMI. ATI is especially not career worthy. Unless you have felony's following you around and it's the best you can do.

 

[Boris Badenov]

Unbelievable. A criminal enterprise that has been a criminal enterprise for decades directs its members to engage in a crime, and you point the finger at ALPA. Can’t make this s—- up.

I thought I was pretty explicitly not pointing the finger at anyone. I WAS a Teamster in a former life...(ramp rat), they sucked. But again, they were VOTED in, and there's got to be a reason for that. You have mountains of experience in this stuff, why not use the opportunity to educate rather than yell?

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I thought I was pretty explicitly not pointing the finger at anyone. I WAS a Teamster in a former life...(ramp rat), they sucked. But again, they were VOTED in, and there's got to be a reason for that. You have mountains of experience in this stuff, why not use the opportunity to educate rather than yell?

I’m not really sure how to educate someone who thinks the education needs to go beyond “it was illegal.” If that’s not enough for you, then we’re not living in the same universe, let alone on the same page. The IBT should have been shut down long ago.

 

[Boris Badenov]

Hey, I might even agree with you. They certainly give every scent of having significant organized crime ties, etc. Or at least that's the popular conception. But again, dude, they were voted in. Why do you think that might be?

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Hey, I might even agree with you. They certainly give every scent of having significant organized crime ties, etc. Or at least that's the popular conception. But again, dude, they were voted in. Why do you think that might be?

I assume you’re looking for an answer other than “pilots do stupid stuff,” but that’s all I’ve got for you.

 

[Boris Badenov]

Well I dunno, maybe I was begging the question, a bit. But like I would assume that it was because the pilot groups in question didn't feel that they were getting adequate representation from ALPA. Their line seems to be that ALPA works for the Legacies, and everyone else is just more dues money. I don't know that to be the case, but at least 51% of the pilots in some shops seem to have bought it. At the very least, that shows that there are some problems with the communication from National, yeah? I mean maybe not. Again, this is stuff you know a lot more about than I (or probably most other people here) do. So lay it out, help us!

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Well I dunno, maybe I was begging the question, a bit. But like I would assume that it was because the pilot groups in question didn't feel that they were getting adequate representation from ALPA. Their line seems to be that ALPA works for the Legacies, and everyone else is just more dues money. I don't know that to be the case, but at least 51% of the pilots in some shops seem to have bought it. At the very least, that shows that there are some problems with the communication from National, yeah? I mean maybe not. Again, this is stuff you know a lot more about than I (or probably most other people here) do. So lay it out, help us!

That a majority of a group believe a thing does not necessarily give that thing validity. The problem is that the average pilot has no clue how the RLA works, and when ALPA tries to teach them, they stick their fingers in their ears and scream “I can’t hear you!” because it’s not what they want to hear. Pilots are their own worst enemies.

 

[Boris Badenov]

Pilots are their own worst enemies.

No argument here. Now, though, we have the Internet. And Message Boards. And on some of those message boards are guys who did the negotiating for some of those Unions and have inside information as to what went down. And at least ONE of those guys no longer flies for a living and has no reason to sugar coat anything, and could give out some really great history, advice, and opinion. But WHO could it BE?

 

[ppragman]

“Illegal strike” - lolz.

The people who fought (and died) for the weekend and 40-hr workweek are rolling over in their graves. This is why we can’t have nice things America.

 

[Boris Badenov]

Oh great. Ok, fine, have another pursefight. That should fix things.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

No argument here. Now, though, we have the Internet. And Message Boards. And on some of those message boards are guys who did the negotiating for some of those Unions and have inside information as to what went down. And at least ONE of those guys no longer flies for a living and has no reason to sugar coat anything, and could give out some really great history, advice, and opinion. But WHO could it BE?

See post #34. That’s why pilots end up with the IBT, it’s why RLA case law is management’s wet dream, and it’s why pilots are far further behind as a profession than they should be.

 

[Boris Badenov]

See post #34. That’s why pilots end up with the IBT, it’s why RLA case law is management’s wet dream, and it’s why pilots are far further behind as a profession than they should be.

Yeah but you could change that (in some very small way) by putting in a few paragraphs of your experiences and I'll grudgingly admit intelligence, rather than chucking e-bombs like this is flightinfo circa 2007.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Yeah but you could change that (in some very small way) by putting in a few paragraphs of your experiences and I'll grudgingly admit intelligence, rather than chucking e-bombs like this is flightinfo circa 2007.

I kinda miss Flightinfo, though.

Maybe tomorrow. Gotta get up early for a conference.

 

[jhugz]

I’ve never seen anyone drink ALPA Kool-Aide stronger then ATNPilot, and this is coming from an ALPA committee member.

 

[NickH]

I'm still hoping he'll comment on how ALPA got ATI's stunning contract through. And why.