ATC privatization bill thrown out

[Vector4Food]

You actually asked a lot of different questions not just about movements, but I'll answer that one as well. NavCan claims there are more than 1,900 controllers and they moved 12M last year which equals 6,315 ops per controller.
Rinaldi's latest statement to Congress claimed we have 13,882 FAA employees controllers with another 1,375 contract controllers so 15,257 total excluding military facilities and their operations. The USA actually had 134.11M total ops last year according to ATADS which equates to
8,790 ops per controller.

So to my point of all of this, your statement that Canada moves equalivilent traffic to California was not accurate. In fact Canada moves 72% of the traffic volume on average that America does.

Therefore, simple reasoning would mean there are plenty of busy or busier airspaces than some in the US, just as a matter of averaging.

Like I've said, the cowboy movie persona of American controllers simply is not true.

Also the IFR-IFR loss of separation rates is public information

3.3/100,000 in the US compared to
0.75/100,000

So I think comparing US airspace and requirements to Canadian ones is a much closer parallel than one outside the industry might initially think.

 

[RobertB]

If you add up all the traffic, not just tower operations in California, which I previously posted, that state's controllers move the same as/more than Canada. The towers alone moved 7M+ so then add in the TRACONs and centers and you easily reach the same as Canada does for an entire nation.

 

[Vector4Food]

If you add up all the traffic, not just tower operations in California, which I previously posted, that state's controllers move the same as/more than Canada. The towers alone moved 7M+ so then add in the TRACONs and centers and you easily reach the same as Canada does for an entire nation.

I see your point.

You're mixing apples and oranges however.

Total aircraft movements/controllers is far more relative than just looking at movements

You implied it was irrelevant to compare Canada to the US, when in fact it's far more relative than perhaps you had implied.

 

[genot]

What are separation standards in Canada? How close are your busiest airports, ie complexity? We can muddy these waters all day long.

I feel safe saying, generally speaking, the busiest Canadian controller in your average moment isn't as busy as their American counterpart. That's not bravado, its simple math (and I've met controllers from Canada, the UK and Australia and have nothing but respect for what they do). Will that change during the course of a day? Absolutely. I also feel safe saying an American controller is more in tune with the privatization efforts than a colleague up north. Canada is a more friendly environment for the type of system proposed. Here? Not so much.

I'm proud to be a public servant and as much trouble and turmoil that invites here, I'd prefer it to the alternative. Having read the bill it essentially threw every post date new hire under the bus. Worse benefits, worse retirement. I will not willingly stand for that implementation.

 

[mshunter]

they expect to be spoon fed information, not learn on their own, they expect to get a participation trophy.

Oh man. So true starting with my generation. There are winners and losers at everything. Mids need to learn that.

 

[mshunter]

The piece of American ATC that was privatized is a complete disaster and had become so worthless that no one will even use it. Talking about flight service of course.
On the other hand in the one place it wasn't privatized, it's still fantastic, and those guys save lives probably every day.

When was FSS privatized?

 

[z987k]

What are separation standards in Canada? How close are your busiest airports, ie complexity? We can muddy these waters all day long.

I feel safe saying, generally speaking, the busiest Canadian controller in your average moment isn't as busy as their American counterpart. That's not bravado, its simple math (and I've met controllers from Canada, the UK and Australia and have nothing but respect for what they do). Will that change during the course of a day? Absolutely. I also feel safe saying an American controller is more in tune with the privatization efforts than a colleague up north. Canada is a more friendly environment for the type of system proposed. Here? Not so much.

I'm proud to be a public servant and as much trouble and turmoil that invites here, I'd prefer it to the alternative. Having read the bill it essentially threw every post date new hire under the bus. Worse benefits, worse retirement. I will not willingly stand for that implementation.

Canada and Australia have domestic CLPDC. They win.

 

[z987k]

When was FSS privatized?

Not sure.

 

[RDoug]

When was FSS privatized?

2005 in CONUS, Hawaii, and the Caribbean. Still under FAA in Alaska.