At least 1 dead as plane with 7 aboard crashes into lake

[JDean3204]

This is a pathetic thread, sad what JC is turning into. Less and less aviation talk.

Yeah, this thread is pretty embarrassing. We all have our political opinions, but like Mike said, keep it in the lav.

This ^^

It really seems as if JC has slowly morphed into an extension of the political banter from other social media. In the Lav is one thing, as hot as that dumpster fire burns at least it isn’t public to viewing guests, but this is just embarrassing. Hoping this thread gets moved to the Lav in short order.

 

[BaronPete]

“...seems to be...” is not necessarily the reality. Yes, plenty of examples to point at, but certainly a small-ish minority of the whole group.

(Don’t misunderstand me - I’m not defending the safety record of that group in any way, but characterizing “successful examples” as being in the minority is just incorrect.)

That’s fair, as I really have nothing other than anecdotal observations to base that on. Thanks for your perspective.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

All social media is toxic. But anybody who wants to claim that JC is worse than APC or the deranged right wing corporate circle-jerk going on over at PPW has a whole box of screws loose.

 

[tcco94]

All social media is toxic. But anybody who wants to claim that JC is worse than APC or the deranged right wing corporate circle-jerk going on over at PPW has a whole box of screws loose.

TODD is back!! This thread turned into such a sh*t storm he logged on to join in! Incredible!!!

 

[milleR]

All social media is toxic. But anybody who wants to claim that JC is worse than APC or the deranged right wing corporate circle-jerk going on over at PPW has a whole box of screws loose.

Since a social media presence was a mandatory requirement for your hiring process several years ago, I'm interested to hear how you feel about it now.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Since a social media presence was a mandatory requirement for your hiring process several years ago, I'm interested to hear how you feel about it now.

I would still be unlikely to hire someone who had no online presence. It just indicates a disconnect from the modern world, and as a company that focuses on leveraging technology, that’s a bad situation. But I encourage people not to use them much at all. Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok especially are wholly toxic environments that are designed to hack your mind, and their hacking abilities grow stronger and stronger.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

All social media is toxic. But anybody who wants to claim that JC is worse than APC or the deranged right wing corporate circle-jerk going on over at PPW has a whole box of screws loose.

#ToddTalks

 

[Space Monkey]

Who cares what their politics were, who they voted for, and what religion they believed in. How about they were fellow Americans who lost their life in a tragic business jet accident, and we find out why it happened so we can learn from it and prevent the next one?

You mean like investigating the 6JAN Insurrection and Capital storming??

Who cares how politically-driven, craven or weak-minded Mike Pence is. It's never ok for folks to storm the capital and run through its halls calling for Pence's hanging.

 

[Space Monkey]

I would still be unlikely to hire someone who had no online presence. It just indicates a disconnect from the modern world, and as a company that focuses on leveraging technology, that’s a bad situation. But I encourage people not to use them much at all. Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok especially are wholly toxic environments that are designed to hack your mind, and their hacking abilities grow stronger and stronger.

Getting encrypto-jacked!!! The ultimate in "leveraged" technology.

Keep on believin', y'all. Keep telling yourselves it works good and lasts a long time. When the common cultural sense of "a long time" is next week, that can probably be made true.

Still, kids, y'all might want to keep a paper copy of your account statements in a fireproof box every month or so.

No pilot launches with his eyes closed and fingers crossed; That's not how we deal with risk. Or, at least it shouldn't be.

 

[Space Monkey]

I hate to be the grammar fascist here, but showing *remorse* implies that we've done something wrong.

At any rate, I'm not going to celebrate their death, but I don't have to feel sympathy for them either. That's two less people trying to run this country into the ground, IMO.

It's hard to care about language when so many no longer care about definitions anymore... or truth, or honesty, or objectivity... or, ulitmately, humility.

We're in a post-fact, post-reason world. Anything "you" "choose to believe" is "truth" these days. There are real pilots in this "modern" world who actually believe the earth is flat; Who actually, quote, "don't believe science".

When confronted with the fact that their aircraft flies due to principles discovered and explained and exploitable solely because of science, they back-pedal, blush, and admit that they believe in "the science that helps me."

No pilot launches with his eyes closed and fingers crossed; That's not how we deal with risk. Or, at least it shouldn't be.

 

[Space Monkey]

You know, I look forward to the day - soon, I hope - where you and I can have policy disagreements again, and when we are not worried about the future of our Republic.

I hope, but increasingly doubt, we can save this republic so that your wish can be realized.

Psychological diseases are tough to overcome without outside assistance. When the organ or perception is sick, it's very difficult for that organ to assess and heal its own disease. If you broke your hand, could you use that same hand to set it's own bones??

 

[Space Monkey]

Obviously sounds like he’s got his hands full with something on his call to departure, but not enough to declare an emergency or state anything out of the ordinary. Curious to hear more data about the descent rate at the end. VMC/IMC? Just happened to be a lake when he came out of clouds or a “sully” attempt? I assuming no CVR in this bird.

We'll wait for the NTSB, but man oh manischevitz, this one sure evokes memories of the Cleveland CJ a few years back. 1500 foot overcast... Stuff starts going sideways real hard at about 2000 feet. Hmmm.

 

[Fixtur]

...back to unfounded speculation...

It was suggested earlier that pilot may have hit the master switch instead of the igniters. That makes a lot of sense, as he would have lost the magenta line and the FD right as he was going into the clouds.

I'm assuming there are the usual backup instruments somewhere, but that could be very disorienting in the moment, especially for a nonprofessional (less rigorously trained) pilot.

That said, I really miss my FMS and flight director. #sixpack #rvr1800 #ifitslegalyoulaunch #singlepilot

Fix

 

[Space Monkey]

...back to unfounded speculation...

It was suggested earlier that pilot may have hit the master switch instead of the igniters. That makes a lot of sense, as he would have lost the magenta line and the FD right as he was going into the clouds.

I'm assuming there are the usual backup instruments somewhere, but that could be very disorienting in the moment, especially for a nonprofessional (less rigorously trained) pilot.

That said, I really miss my FMS and flight director. #sixpack #rvr1800 #ifitslegalyoulaunch #singlepilot

Fix

Lol... give an actual primary systems reversion to backup instruments to 85% of "pro" pilots these days... you'll likely have similar results.

Personally, I'm fearing for that day - which will come soon - when some congested sector loses RADAR and GPS at the same time on a busy IMC day. That's when imma be eating popcorn, watching the smoking holes pop like so many zits, morbidly chuckling, and thinking, "told you so".

 

[Roger Roger]

Lol... give an actual primary systems reversion to backup instruments to 85% of "pro" pilots these days... you'll likely have similar results.

Personally, I'm waiting for that day - which will come soon - when some busy sector loses RADAR and GPS at the same time on an IMC day. That's when imma be eating popcorn, watching the smoking holes pop like so many zits, morbidly chuckling, and thinking, "told you so".

Ah yes. You are SO AWESOME all those other mere mortal pilots don’t know how to fly a VOR radial anymore.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

I'm assuming there are the usual backup instruments somewhere, but that could be very disorienting in the moment, especially for a nonprofessional (less rigorously trained) pilot.

I personally would not like having to fly by reference to the third attitude indicator except for short periods of time while trying to recover either of the PFDs/main (E)ADIs/whatever, and this is true of most of the airplanes I've flown, now that I think about it. I also don't think I ever did fly by reference to the third horizon in initial on the Bus or CRJ (except for maybe some boring, straight and level stuff—been a while since that course), which, at least in the case of the latter, seems really ridiculously stupid.

If true, this is a bad friggin' way to go out, and quite a bummer.

 

[Space Monkey]

Ah yes. You are SO AWESOME all those other mere mortal pilots don’t know how to fly a VOR radial anymore.

Sorry I triggered you. It's not meant as an invidious distinction. It's meant as a warning.

 

[Boris Badenov]

Ah yes. You are SO AWESOME all those other mere mortal pilots don’t know how to fly a VOR radial anymore.

It's not an unreasonable expectation. Things break, and being able to parallel process and revert are pretty much the only reasons we're even still in the plane. Why am I telling YOU this?

 

[Roger Roger]

It's not an unreasonable expectation. Things break, and being able to parallel process and revert are pretty much the only reasons we're even still in the plane. Why am I telling YOU this?

You misunderstand me. I’m saying crop duster seems to have a major superiority complex and thinks that he’s the only one in the sky who knows how to fly vor to vor and that because he’s so awesome we should throw out the last 30 years of technological advancements. Yes, there’s probably still a major competence problem out there in 135/91 land but going back to mechanical gyros and ADFs ain’t gonna fix it.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Ah yes. You are SO AWESOME all those other mere mortal pilots don’t know how to fly a VOR radial anymore.

Lol... give an actual primary systems reversion to backup instruments to 85% of "pro" pilots these days... you'll likely have similar results.

Well, maybe.

One of the big elephants in the room in the (121) air carrier world is that we spend a vanishingly small amount of time actually flying our airplanes and even less of that is done without the assistance of a flight director. The research on this is largely filed under the "this is awkward" pile, but a large component of EET really ought to just be called "the raw data/basic attitude instrument flying without all your goddamn magic on" refresher course. And it's there because, well, children of the magenta.

GENERALLY, attitude instrument flying is an overlearned task, but it takes a while for that skill to come back. Especially if you're dealing with a handful of other stuff (because, unless you're an Air France pilot, nothing happens at FL 370 and straight-and-level, but during more exciting flight phases).