Are Major Airline pilots overpaid?

[Virusss]

Doug couldnt have said it more Perfectly.

I am 16 and HIGHLY into business, politics, foreign affairs, blah blah blah.

And if no one noticed THE MORE YOU EARN THE MORE TAXES YOU PAY

i bet my life that Doug pays about 46.5% in taxes on annual income.
Right Doug?

Any way most of the rampers ARE HIGH SCHOOL dropOUTS.

IF they Dont want to go and finish high school or and go to colllege for 4 aggonizing years and then go to training school then WHY The h*ll should they get paid more???

Tell me that please. SO what if they help keep planes on time actually its the pilots work to do that the just waiv a orange flag to help the pilot dock.

So what do you say now huh? my seven year old brother can do that

 

[I_Money]

>>My point is that dispatchers, operation agents, mechanics and others who work hard should also be paid competitive wages!<<

A competitive wage is comparing jobs with equal requirements, burdens, hours, etc. In that respect I think rampers are very well paid!!

Pilots are professionals with recruitment requirements far in excess of those other jobs you mentioned. Pilots are highly trained to deal with numerous situations, and held to very high standards as unlike the other professions time is not on their side.

Also Lufthansa recently got a 40% wage rise, so they are equally paid to major US pilots.

 

[Virusss]

By the way cn some one please get me a higher star im starting to feel sad for myself

 

[A300Capt]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
My point is that dispatchers, operation agents, mechanics and others who work hard should also be paid competitive wages!

[/ QUOTE ]

Your point, as we all understood it, was that you thought senior airline pilots make to much money.

As far as competitive wages for other employees...well, competitive with whom? Those "overpaid" senior airline pilots you talk about? Do you mean competitive with regard to other dispatchers, agents and mechanics at other airlines? I'm sure Delta's pay for those positions is commensurate with, if not a leader on pay issues.

I think you believe those jobs which you mentioned should make a salary comparable to the senior captain. Well, as far as responsibility, experience necessary for the position, constant training and testing, liability, knowledge required to do the job, loss of license issue (both medical and pilot) and time away from home, about the only hard argument you can make is for the mechanics.

I know dispatchers and ops agents work hard. I won't argue with you on that point. But, you can't compare the testing, skill and knowledge requirements needed to operate a large jet under normal and adverse conditions versus dispatching one. I will agree with you that mechanics should make higher wages.

 

[Virusss]

HERE read this this will explain MOST of WHY the pilots get PAID SO MUCH READ IT

http://www.alpa.org/internet/feature/worth.htm

 

[derg]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
i bet my life that Doug pays about 46.5% in taxes on annual income.
Right Doug?


[/ QUOTE ]

I gross a little under $10,000/month on average, but after taxes, bring home about $5,200 after state tax, federal tax, medicare tax, and social security tax.

I'm starting to realize that the federal, state and social security administration would panic if I made any less.

Don't get me wrong, I think everyone deserves to make a percentage of what they produce but unskilled labor is always going to be a low paid position because of the generous availability of people able to fill that job.

Can the average Joe pass a bar exam? Nope, which is why lawyers, in most part, are paid accordingly.

Can the average Joe survive 4 undergrad years, 4 years of med school and a two-year residency? Nope, which is why doctors, in most part, are paid accordingly.

I'd love to make a lot more money, believe me. But I'm not going to begrudge baseball players because some earn $50,000,000 on a contract. I suck at baseball nor did I ever apply for the Arizona Diamondbacks. I have no skills and wouldn't last much more than a single 90mph fast ball thrown at my head before I quit.

Thus, I have no complaints about not being paid on par with Randy Johnson. Good for him. Because, of course, if you have the ability to fill a 45,000 seat stadium with people paying $40 for a seat, $10 for parking and $5 for a hot dog for an entire season, he's making the team way more money than he's being paid.

Besides, if you can't afford it, the game is free on television.

Keep in mind, people also complain about plumbers charging $80/hr to do plumbing work. They might, in a busy day, get two phone calls, drive out to where your house is, dig thru nasty pipes brimming with human "goo", fix your problem and head back to the office to wait for another telephone call. Meanwhile, they've got rent on the office space, tool fees, taxes, transportation costs, etc.

$80/hr to dig in my human waste and prevent my toilet from flooding my home? Fair deal, I'll even throw in a cold pepsi after you're done.

 

[davetheflyer]

As an aspiring major airline pilot and current regional airline pilot, I feel qualified to field this one.

Pilots typically get paid in block time. That is the time that the first engine starts to the time the last engine shuts down. For all the other stuff, preflight prep, layovers, cancellations, etc. pilots are not paid. (I'm not sure how pay would be handled in a case where all engine quit in flight.) Pilots are paid for only a small percentage of the time they work, if you look at it that way.

I'm writing this while on a 3 day trip. Three days away from my family. If I wanted to work for peanuts, I could be a flight instructor and be home every night and poor.

Similarly, airline pilots have years of experience that money cannot buy. Airlines have to pay a scale that will be competitive in order to keep their pilots from going to their competitors. Would it be wise for Delta or United to fire their high time/high salary captains and replace them with flight academy grads who would be willing to work cheap? I'll bet most passengers don't think the deal would be that good.

Additionally, an airline pilot career is the culmination of as many years of hard work as a doctor or lawyer. Without some chance of a payoff, how many people would become pilots and help preserve our national infrastructure.

Before you complain about airline pilots, whose jobs are highly skilled and whose proficiency is important to the passengers in back, let's tackle (pun intended) the million dollar salaries of athletes who don't contribute anything except crime articles in the news.

 

[davetheflyer]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
his run from city X to City Y was a pretty good gig, but travel. yeah right. that's livin''


[/ QUOTE ]

Same story with me. My overnights so far have been Philadlphia, Buffalo, and Greensboro NC. Not exactly seeing the world. In fact, I havn't seen much of those cities outside my hotel room.

As far as pilot pay, unitl I completed training I was making $200 per week (not a typo). Now I'm up to $21.50 per hour. Sounds good until you read between the lines. I'm guaranteed only 75 hours per month, and the most that I can legally log is 100.

And yesterday, for example, I blocked six hours. To block that much time, I had to get up at 4 am and work until 7pm.

 

[derg]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
And yesterday, for example, I blocked six hours. To block that much time, I had to get up at 4 am and work until 7pm.

[/ QUOTE ]

Same here at the majors.

I worked a 4-day trip, was away from home from tuesday thru friday for about 80 hours, had a 11 hours layover by the airport in ONT, a short layover in SLC and a 8-hour reduced rest layover in ATL by the airport and made a whopping 19 paid hours.

Gone for almost 80 hours, but only paid for 19. Woo hoo!

 

[luvlanding]

My father was a ramper working his way up to lead in the 35 years he was at UAL. He was the type of person who met and got to know a lot of people including pilots. I'll never forget him telling me when that DC-10 when down in Iowa in 89, "that's why they get paid the way they do." That was an emergency the whole country knew about. He said there were probably many others, probably minor to that, that they handled that no one ever knew about.

 

[Pilot21]

I agree with Doug entirely on this one. I am with a regional now and lets not forget that a lot of us commute and have to pay for rent for a crash pad as well as bills back at home. Im sure you dont have to worry about paying double bills, one set for your home and one set of bills for your crash pad. Lets put that into the equation, oh and lets not forget transportation because now you have to have transportation at home and at your domicile. Wow you really werent thinking about that were you? Lets see that would be rent, electricity, gas, water, heat, renters and homeowners insurance, car payment and insurance for both cars. Ok now lets see exactly how much I get to take home every year. You figure it out. Just double all of your expenses and I'll even let you double your salary for the equation. And let me not even get started on JUST HOPING to be home for a child or spouse's birthday or anniversaries. Heck try just having a long lasting relationship while being away from home for over 20 days a month sometimes, chances are it wont last very long unless you both sacrifice A LOT more than a regular relationship where you are not away from home.

I dont mean to get on your case but I hear this argument all to often. A lot of people dont realize the challenges of this lifestyle and yes we do know what we are getting into when we started flight training but if its what you love, you do what it takes in order to achieve your goals. So as far as compensation I do not believe for one second that we are overpaid. I do however agree that rampers and csa's and mechanics deserve all the compensation that they get and more but dont DIG yourself a hole by saying that pilots get paid too much.

 

[n77j]

I want to clearify here that i am talking about" MAJOR" airline pilots and not regional. I am graduate of SJSU- if any of you care to know. My feeling is that senior pilots should max out at $150,000! That's is it! I am arguing on behalf of rampers, dispatchers, mechanics who work their butss off! It is physically and mentally draning and to make a wage just above minimum wage is absolutely ridiculous. I feel like airline are being run by the pilots at almost every major airline. Go ahead say whatever you want but i am on the side of the blue collar workers.

 

[I_Money]

&gt;&gt;I'm not sure how pay would be handled in a case where all engine quit in flight.&lt;&lt;

On Sept 11th the United crews pay stopped when the airplanes crashed. I think it would have been decent of the company to atleast pay them for the rest of the flight!!

 

[pilot602]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
It is physically and mentally draning and to make a wage just above minimum wage is absolutely ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then you should quit.

Pilots get paid close to what they're worth and if you don't like it why are you trying to become one yourself? If you're not why are you here stirring up trouble simply for the sake of doing it?

 

[I_Money]

communism

\Com"mu*nism\, n. [F. communisme, fr. commun common.] A scheme of equalizing the social conditions of life; specifically, a scheme which contemplates the abolition of inequalities in the possession of property, as by distributing all wealth equally to all, or by holding all wealth in common for the equal use and advantage of all.

Is this what you want?

 

[derg]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
My feeling is that senior pilots should max out at $150,000!

[/ QUOTE ]

And who determines that? I think the last guy who tried that was Marx.

Lots of people work hard. Not a lot of folks get paid what they deserve, however for you to berate my professions pay because you feel you're not paid enough isn't my problem to be quite frank.

If the people you are arguing on behalf of want to make airline pilot salaries, tell them to undergo flight training and work their way up the ranks, just like everyone else.

Not a thing in the world is stopping any able-bodied man (or woman) with drive, ambition and dedication from accomplishing anything they set their minds to.

If you want to be a millionaire bad enough, it's not that hard. But if you don't do what it takes to become one, don't player hate the guys that did.

 

[Zone5AB]

I can’t tell if you guys are complaining or bragging.

It seems to me if years of rising early, brutal sacrifice, and little income were justification for high compensation, there are a lot of single mothers out there that are about to become millionaires. Furthermore, time away from families is not limited to pilots – all those business folks riding in the back of your planes are just starting work when they arrive. It’s not uncommon for business people to be traveling two weeks a month, and of course, in the office the other two weeks of the month, all the time away from their families.

Lastly, extrapolating from the arguments I read here, NASA’s astronauts should be earning about $800,000 to $1,000,000 per year – after all, they have either been through one of the country’s military aviation programs and test pilot schools or have earned a PhD, or both. I didn’t realize the GS pay scale could go that high.

BTW, I am not one who believes airline pilots are excessively compensated. I am merely pointing out that a lot of people make sacrifices and work hard, and we should keep that in mind when we are so eager to criticize another’s earning potential, whether it is a pilot, physician, business person, etc.

 

[I_Money]

&gt;&gt; all those business folks riding in the back of your planes are just starting work when they arrive. It’s not uncommon for business people to be traveling two weeks a month&lt;&lt;

Althought I am sure there are some businessman who travel that much (the wallstreet boys) I think you will find very few businessman who travel that amount for an extended period of time (for more then 5 years or so). And you can almost bet that if they are travelling that much their salary shows it!

 

[AirborneMedic_ANGa10]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
BTW, I am not one who believes airline pilots are excessively compensated. I am merely pointing out that a lot of people make sacrifices and work hard, and we should keep that in mind when we are so eager to criticize another’s earning potential, whether it is a pilot, physician, business person, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]


Yeah, I agree. I'm surprised nobody said anything about my previous reply. There are a lot of people who are underpaid. I would say that there are quite a few jobs out there that require more personal sacrifice than being an airline pilot that pay way less. I don't think that airline pilots are overcompensated. I think that their pay (in the majors, at the top end) is fairly appropriate. The pilots have worked for where they've gotten and the sacrifices are definitely there, and they've also worked to secure their contracts. I'd like to see everybody make what they're worth. In this world, the employer is at the advantage, but the pilots unions have been able to level the playing field just a bit in their situation. Here's the bottom line: we can all argue about who's job is more important, about who's been through more to get there, and who works harder. But, if you don't like how much you get paid you have to change it with an organized (union-type) effort, or quit. You'll never win the argument that somebody is overpaid. Save maybe actors, athletes, and ambulance-chasing lawyers!!

 

[A320_DUDE]

I've been at work all day...so I'm just catching up....Yaroslav....dude you went wayyyyyyyy over the line with calling rampers uneducated. I am a ground ops employee and I work with the rampers everyday....they are some of the smartest people you will ever meet in the industry. Alot of them have college degrees...one guy I know at USAir has a master degree!....they just like working outside,around aircraft. At USAir they have rampers with 35+ years of seniority. I know I'm gonna get slammed for saying this, GROUND OPS EMPLOYEES ARE THE HEART AND SOUL OF ANY AIRLINE! We make it happen out there everyday....we get the flights checked in,loaded with baggage and fuel.....we bust ass doing turning the big birds around all day long....and I will not have someone diss them just because you have the attitude that pilots are something special. Yes, being a airline pilot is a great job....but they are not the whole airline. We ground pounders do our jobs with little fanfare...and LOW pay....but we do it.....and we do a hell of a job. Ground Ops types are like one big family....regardless if you wear a AA,NW,UA,WN or JB uniform. I know if I met Zombie or n77j we would become fast friends because we have to have a tight bond to make it work out there. I have seen pilots and F/As come off airplane swearing at each other....not good CRM there! Hopefully you will read this post and come away with a greater understanding of what we do!