elmetal
Ain't nobody got time for that
as far as I understand the new rules, as long as you're employed by the day after tomorrow you have until some date in 2016 to get to 1500 which is totally reasonable.
Any low time fo's time building?
- Thread starter nmineau
- Start date
as far as I understand the new rules, as long as you're employed by the day after tomorrow you have until some date in 2016 to get to 1500 which is totally reasonable.
ClarkGriswold
Non Nutritive Cereal Varnish Engineer
You mean he knows how to follow one of the books he enforces?
dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
Hell, you left me out. I'm adamantly opposed to this, and I had my 1500/ATP before the Colgan crash even happened!
I'm all about protecting the livelihoods of our own. I have no agenda beyond that.
juxtapilot
Snowflake
Find it in the book. Nobody at my airline can find it in the new rules. It was in the old book.
ClarkGriswold
Non Nutritive Cereal Varnish Engineer
Like I said most airlines have an LOA where you become dequaled, BS, until you get the 1500. Then you can fly with 1500 without an ATP up to 2 years or so. I still don't see where it says he is losing his job. It may before a month but not completely.
elmetal
Ain't nobody got time for that
when you make <2k a month EVERY month counts
ClarkGriswold
Non Nutritive Cereal Varnish Engineer
Well I know my buddy at 9E is using it to stay qualified. I am not sure where it is or if is still in 61.159. It may be too late, but plenty of people have been doing it. I know one who used it and did their ride 2 weeks ago with like 80 hours of sim time to get the 1500.
juxtapilot
Snowflake
Unpaid leave. No cash. No health bennies. Nobody wants to hire because they know you're on leave. Sounds awesome!
And you cannot fly without an ATP for up to 2 years. You CAN fly without a PIC type for up to 2 years.
ClarkGriswold
Non Nutritive Cereal Varnish Engineer
this is my last post tonight.
There has been plenty of time to prepare for this. This rule has been out since late 2010. It said ATP was required with 1500 hours, the rumors of less were just that, rumors. Until the restricted rule came out it has always been 1500 hours. No exceptions. Sucks but thats the rule.
Well I stand corrected on that part. My bad.
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
It's a response that (IMO) has diddly to do with Colgan, but happened to be the solution floating around when the public policy problem bubbled to the forefront.
juxtapilot
Snowflake
You, like many people are clueless as to how this is affecting some people. It's has the potential to really mess up their lives... Many of whom were licensed prior to 2010. But rules are rules. For safety. But really because these guys losing their jobs will create a "pilot shortage" and maybe I'll get a $2.00/hr raise.
crazyjaydawg
Well-Known Member
I know more people that knew exactly what they were getting into three years ago, than people that are getting "hurt" by this rule. My guess has to be that if this guy doesn't have enough time right now, then he definitely got hired after the law was passed in 2010. How could a person be that ignorant and just keep going on a hope and a prayer that the FAA would magically grant them an exception? That's decision making 101 to wait until you can do anything about it and it shows very poor decision making IMO.
Also keep in mind you are arguing with somebody that knew of the rule and he busted his ass off to get that 1500 before this rule applied (picking up open time, renting a 172 for a couple hrs, etc.) all on first year pay. I think anybody affected by this rule that's already at an airline is guilty of incredibly poor planning and sitting around waiting for the FAA to make an exception, no matter how well deserved, is completely foolish.
All of those above points aside, my original comment still stands: It is always illegal to pencil-whip a logbook. There are many things in life and in flying that still depend on trust and a signature that represents a person's trust. I cannot believe that fellow aviation professionals would ever advocate violating the trust and honesty that thousands of pilots represent with their signatures everyday.
I know you'll say something about trusting the FAA and they should be trusted to do what's right blah blah. While yes, I wish the FAA would do things right more often, the fact of the matter is that it's a government agency and I trust them to do what's right about as many times as I trust a super model to actually call me to go out tomorrow night. Professional aviators on the other hand, I trust to do what's right 100% of the time. They're the individuals with my and my families' lives in their hands. I sincerely hope these professionals are doing what's safe and legal everyday.
beeteeaye
Next stop...Indy.
Geeeeeeezus, this one got out if hand. Plain and simple, one day your qualified, the next your not, all because of a short sighted law. The fact that it only makes WORSE what it intended to make better is another discussion for another time, but every company is different and in the case of LOA, a company has every legal right to say "good night Irene, you can't play here no more"
This is where the legislation becomes real, and it's the legal equivalent gun to the head.
Not in favor one way or the other, but in the case It's not to get ahead it life, it's to have one.
© Sent from my IPhone5 using Forum Runner
This is where the legislation becomes real, and it's the legal equivalent gun to the head.
Not in favor one way or the other, but in the case It's not to get ahead it life, it's to have one.
© Sent from my IPhone5 using Forum Runner
dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
You've put it more succinctly than I could. I don't condone pencil whipping, and won't advise anyone to do it. However, if the choice is between financial ruin and staying employed, well, I wouldn't look down on anyone for protecting themselves.
crazyjaydawg, I'm glad things worked out for you, but I urge you to walk a mile in someone else's shoes before you expect your fellow pilots to take their lumps and become Starbucks baristas over this rule change. I had no ability to pick up open time when I was a <1500 hour regional pilot, and I know I wasn't the only one. ~40 block hours a month was my average at XJT, and I never even got close to holding a line (though I'd been told it'd be 2-3 months!).
N519AT
Ahh! This is how I change this!
I am very fortunate to be one of the people not affected by this. I'm counting my blessings as I made it by 3 months. And I was flying my ass off to do so. If I had gotten hired anywhere else, it's very likely that I wouldn't have made it.
I still think it's a BS rule and the fact that some people are going to lose their jobs over it validates that point even further.
I still think it's a BS rule and the fact that some people are going to lose their jobs over it validates that point even further.
crazyjaydawg
Well-Known Member
I was never an airline pilot with <1500 hrs. I spent almost 10 months in the unemployment line between cfi gigs before I was fortunate enough to get a look at with 1900tt. I had ATP mins in dual given before I got I hired at an airline that later f*ed me and put me in a position to restart at another regional with over 2500 hrs.
In fact in 18 months before I was called to mil duty I had never gotten a line...so I get the awfulness that is the bottom of a seniority list. Really I also get the short-sightedness of this law. I just feel like there is a line to be drawn at what is O.K. and what is not. Pencil whipping is a really sore subject because I lost some legit opportunities to some people that may have had magical pens where I didn't, but at the end of the day I took a lot of knocks to get to where I'm at and I know most airline pilots have. I'm not condoning the knocks and saying everyone else needs to take those knocks (I don't want to pull the ladder up on anybody), but I will say that sometimes there are $hi77y rules that everyone needs to play by and I can't respect anyone that thinks a $.99 Bic pen is as valuable as the places that I've been and the things that I have seen to get to where I'm at.
scooter2525
Very well Member
Wish I had a fleet of Cri-Cri (jets of course) to rent at cost so these guys could build TMEPIC.
If you're in the mood for a good joke, guess how much TPIC I have. Keep in mind I have probably 14,000 hours.