Any low time fo's time building?

BTW I know pinnacle is allowing people to use their sim time towards it, I would suggest pursuing that before working on your penmanship.
 
ClarkGriswold said:
Ya but only the restricted part, it was known for almost 2 years that 1500 would be needed. Don't give me that. This is a crappy situation but saying they didn't know or to pencil whip is BS.

This was to Elmetal.
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Until the law was signed it wasn't known for sure.

I agree with dasleben on this one. You're 100% a-ok to do the job today but tomorrow all of a sudden you're disqualified? It's pretty ludicrous.

I'm not advising things to be done one way or the other, but this situation is all sorts of F***ed.

This is ALMOST like the FAA saying: "AS OF 8/1/2013 YOU NEED 300 HOURS TO PERFORM THE DUTIES OF A CSEL/CMEL"

and then all of a sudden all the 250-300hr commercial pilots out there effectively LOSE their ability to perform as a commercial pilot? That's messed up.
 
ClarkGriswold said:
I doesn't matter how messed up it is, pencil whipping is more messed up. And no the 1500 was known, the only unknown was if there would be a restricted ATP.
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So, the lesson is to take your lumps, lose your job over 70 hours worth of flight time?
 
First off, no where does it say he will lose his job. Most airlines have some type of LOA for this to allow them to come back when they get the time. I know plenty of people who have been planning on renting if need be. They knew the deal, this shouldn't be a shocker to anyone it has been public knowledge for awhile.

The lesson is....it is what it is, so quit encouraging him to cut corners illegally. Do it the right way and move on from it ASAP.

To the OP does he have a deal where he can come back once he gets the time?
 
dasleben said:
So, the lesson is to take your lumps, lose your job over 70 hours worth of flight time?
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"Yeah see, we passed this new rule that all of our accountants need 3 years of experience, unfortunately you only have 2 years and 11 months, so we're gonna have to let you go"
 
ClarkGriswold said:
First off, no where does it say he will lose his job. Most airlines have some type of LOA for this to allow them to come back when they get the time. I know plenty of people who have been planning on renting if need be. They knew the deal, this shouldn't be a shocker to anyone it has been public knowledge for awhile.

The lesson is....it is what it is, so quit encouraging him to cut corners illegally. Do it the right way and move on from it ASAP.

To the OP does he have a deal where he can come back once he gets the time?
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My question is: How does the average <1500 hour pilot come up with enough money to rent 70 hours worth of time, and what benefit would it provide? What benefit would instructing in GA aircraft again provide?

My first year as an RJ FO, I made $23,000. I had 3 roommates and barely made ends meet. Renting planes? Hell, I was just happy to put gas in my car. I actually did eventually lose my job, and it was financially shattering after living paycheck to paycheck. Cutting off his pay and allowing him to "come back" when he has the 70 hours is one hell of a raw deal. Many people may not be able to come back. Any such LOA must include seniority and pay protection. Anything else is worthless.

Instructing? That'd be a joke and a half. I have a valid CFI, but I can barely pronounce "chandelle" at this point, much less demonstrate and teach one. It has almost no applicability to what we do for a living in 121, anyway.
 
dasleben said:
So he's short 70 hours and will lose his job over something he can't control? One of the very few times I'd say:

Bic_Stic_Photo.jpg


My official advice is not to do anything illegal, of course...
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Shame on you. I busted my butt for every hour in my logbook! The public trusts that the guy upfront has a little thing called integrity. BIC time has no place in a PROFESSIONAL pilots logbook!
"This isn't Nam, this is bowling. There are rules." -Walter Sobchak
 
Rodger Wilco said:
Shame on you. I busted my butt for every hour in my logbook! The public trusts that the guy upfront has a little thing called integrity. BIC time has no place in a PROFESSIONAL pilots logbook!
"This isn't Nam, this is bowling. There are rules." -Walter Sobchak
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So did I. All my time is legit, and can be backed up accordingly.

This is an extenuating circumstance for current job protection only. I can't outright advise anyone to do it...just giving my opinion about what I think of the whole thing.
 
dasleben said:
My question is: How does the average <1500 hour pilot come up with enough money to rent 70 hours worth of time, and what benefit would it provide? What benefit would instructing in GA aircraft again provide?

My first year as an RJ FO, I made $23,000. I had 3 roommates and barely made ends meet. Renting planes? Hell, I was just happy to put gas in my car. I actually did eventually lose my job, and it was financially shattering after living paycheck to paycheck. Cutting off his pay and allowing him to "come back" when he has the 70 hours is one hell of a raw deal. Many people may not be able to come back. Any such LOA must include seniority and pay protection. Anything else is worthless.

Instructing? That'd be a joke and a half. I have a valid CFI, but I can barely pronounce "chandelle" at this point, much less demonstrate and teach one. It has almost no applicability to what we do for a living in 121, anyway.
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liked, times 1000.

Not everyone has a light twin (or Citabria or whatever) in their backyard.
 
Rodger Wilco said:
Shame on you. I busted my butt for every hour in my logbook! The public trusts that the guy upfront has a little thing called integrity. BIC time has no place in a PROFESSIONAL pilots logbook!
"This isn't Nam, this is bowling. There are rules." -Walter Sobchak
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agreed. same here, but I agree with dasleben on the ludicrousness of the situation
 
I understand what you are saying but again it is what it is. I am not arguing the obsurdness of the rule ( the qualified one day and not the next day part). I am arguing with the fact that you told him to violate a FAR to get him to a point that he should have known he needed to be at for almost 2 years. People can pick up open time, etc you know. Also Elmetal it seems you are below the 1500 too, which shows why you are so opposed. Good night fellas.
 
I'm going to have the flight time for the ATP, but that doesn't mean I'm any less angry with this B.S. law going into effect. It's really disappointing that our government can take away someone's job, and offer nothing in the way of assistance. And in the name of safety? Bullcrap. I just got a turn taken off my trip tomorrow because it's too close to a midnight arrival... When all of the sudden I become an unsafe pilot. Stupid.

Your FO is getting SCREWED by this... Unfortunately the cool thing to do was pull up the ladder, again, in the name of safety... All while hoping it will miraculously raise pay/qol/etc.

ClarkGriswold said:
First off, no where does it say he will lose his job. Most airlines have some type of LOA for this to allow them to come back when they get the time. I know plenty of people who have been planning on renting if need be. They knew the deal, this shouldn't be a shocker to anyone it has been public knowledge for awhile.

Oh? My license was issued in 2006.. No 1500 HR deal at that time.

The lesson is....it is what it is, so quit encouraging him to cut corners illegally. Do it the right way and move on from it ASAP. I wouldn't encourage him to do anything illegal. I would however suggest he make sure he have adequate flight time in his logbook for an ATP.

To the OP does he have a deal where he can come back once he gets the time?
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Well what it is is horse crap. I got into this, and made significant financial investments prior to the 1500 hour crap. Maybe he did too. He is losing his job, probably has a ton of student loan bills he's not going to be able to pay, he's probably not qualified for any government assistance and loan deferrals... Late payment will damage his credit thanks to our brilliant system. Can he pay his rent? Will he be out on the street? And you think an FO at a regional has cash for a rental? Gawd, do you guys even hear what you're saying?
 
ClarkGriswold said:
I understand what you are saying but again it is what it is. I am not arguing the obsurdness of the rule ( the qualified one day and not the next day part). I am arguing with the fact that you told him to violate a FAR to get him to a point that he should have known he needed to be at for almost 2 years. People can pick up open time, etc you know. Also Elmetal it seems you are below the 1500 too, which shows why you are so opposed. Good night fellas.
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I am not in the rush for a regional like everyone with SJS. in fact if I never burn JetA I'll be a happy guy as anyone that personally knows me can attest.

The only catch 22 I run into is that the JetA burning jobs have the money that the piston jobs typically don't.

and I never told anyone to break an FAR, I simply agreed with daslebens points.

1500 means NOTHING to me. I don't have any desire to be in a regional, or a major for that matter, so don't accuse me of being opposed simply because of where I stand as far as experience. If the rule was 3000 hours it wouldn't matter to me any more or less on a personal level

I care about the rule for the industry as a whole and for my fellow pilots, not for myself particularly since it doesn't exactly apply to me (not for the foreseeable future anyway). and I agree with the above, the rule is kind of absurd, but sometimes you need to set lines and I get that. But already employed people losing jobs because of a seemingly retroactive bill?


(Maybe retroactive wasn't the best word there, but I think the point still shows)
 
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