Any info on PACE?

So lets say you go through the pace program and get your interview but they are not hiring at the time? You are then sent to a pool with others in your same predictament, but when they do restart hiring who do they hire first? The poolies or the fresh ones right from the program, where the knowledge is still fresh for the most part.
 
They're gonna take the people who've been in the pool the longest.

Mesa is hiring, and in fact has exhausted their MAPD hiring pool so why even bring it up?

As you've said, the PACE program would largely repeat stuff you'll have already done at Riddle so why would you go to the expense? Got more money than common sense? I told ya once dude, your best bet is to do an internship at a regional that hires its interns at reduced mins.
 
I have looked into the internship thing and the hiring to internship ratio is very low. I have 12 friends on internships with only one in which that has a job offer. So maybe you should educate yourself on those things before you fire on common sense issues. Internships are also very competitive and waste a lot of time if a job is not in the future. Some are very good and others are not so good. Depends on how lucky you become. Yes you may get a nice type rating but no job to go with it, work for free for 6 months and still no job. These are all factors that have to be taken into consideration when applying for them.

There are bridge programs but the only people that I know that have actually gotten them have a GPA at or above a 3.75. Mine sits at 3.2 so I don't see that one coming soon either.

Then on to the cost issue. I definitly don't have excess funds hanging around however I do not want to be stuck in a cfi job for the next 5 years like many friends of mine. I am personally looking for the best option to make it to the airlines. I can spend 6-10 thousand on CFI II or I could spend 12-15 with mesa and a possible position as a FO. So lets go back to the whole common sense thing here.

The reason I ask the question of who they take first is because a lot can happen between now and the time that I would be able to go to Mesa and it is important to know how the system works before you get involved in it. Many companies go for the ones that just went through the training where it is fresh on the mind rather than someone that has been out of the loop for some time.

So I do thank you for your information it only furthers the knowledge I have for this company and process. I believe knowledge is the key to success and unless questions are asked the answers will never have the oppurtunity to come about.

And as far as I knew the reason for these forums is to help each other out with the aviation industry.
 
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I have 12 friends on internships with only one in which that has a job offer. So maybe you should educate yourself on those things before you fire on common sense issues.

[/ QUOTE ] I don't think you really understand the value of an internship. It's a foot in the door, a chance to prove yourself, and for a good number of regionals, a way to the top of the resume stack with a fraction of the time required of off-the-street applicants. Talk to FlyChicaga, it's exactly how he got his job, and he had only 300 hrs when they hired him (the job offer came later, after he'd graduated, not while he was interning--again, that's the norm). As another JCer who's interning at a regional right now told me, he'll walk out of there with a letter of recommendation from the company's chief pilot--which will pretty much make a job his to lose when it comes time to interview with them. See an internship for what it is: a chance to learn about a company from the inside, and to network your ass off.

You may see an internship as a waste of time if it doesn't guarantee a job, but I've got news for you: there are no guarantees in life, even with the MAPD PACE program. Presuming you pass, all PACE guarantees you is an interview; there's no guarantee you'll be hired.

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I can spend 6-10 thousand on CFI II or I could spend 12-15 with mesa and a possible position as a FO. So lets go back to the whole common sense thing here.

[/ QUOTE ] Common sense? What you're talking about is a gamble, not common sense. Have you considered the possibility that you WON'T be hired after PACE? What then? Common sense would dictate doing an internship and getting your CFI tickets, not putting all your eggs in one basket. But...there's no reason you can't do all three; do an internship someplace that hires their interns once they hit a certain number of hours like ACA (600 TT in ACA's case) just to hedge your PACE bet. That way, if you don't get hired at Mesa, you still have ACA to fall back on. THAT'S common sense.
 
While I may not always agree with aloft's views, in this case I'll "Ditto" all the way across the board. Listen to him carefully 'cause he speaks well on this topic.

If you're a good pilot prospect for a regional, an internship is the ideal way to show it. How the H***, you might ask, does a non-flying position as an intern do that? Because they are looking for the personality and work ethic that fits their corporate culture. The regional (or corporate, or major, right on down the line) can be pretty sure that you have or can learn the flying skills they need if you've made it this far. The internship will give you the leg up (and the inside track) if you can show the personality traits that they want to see in a pilot, first SIC then PIC, in their outfit. Then when the hiring begins again, the interns that fit their needs will have an inside track and go to the top of a very, very, very large pile of resumes.

One of the first things that employers are thinking when looking for new pilots is: "would I want to spend the next four days in a cramped cockpit with this person?". An internship gives them an up-close look at what you are like day-to-day, which is something that they can't learn in a 4 hour interview. Really, the exposure and contacts that you make through this experience are worth their weight in gold. The flip side of it is that if you're a jerk or a pain in the keister, an internship is a sure way of flunking yourself out of the running before the gates even open. Another gamble, eh?
 
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do an internship someplace that hires their interns once they hit a certain number of hours like ACA (600 TT in ACA's case) just to hedge your PACE bet. That way, if you don't get hired at Mesa, you still have ACA to fall back on. THAT'S common sense.

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Unless ACA *is* Mesa at that point...
smile.gif


Sorry, struck me as humorous and had to say something.
 
I truly understand what you are saying, I am in no way saying that internships are not good. However, I have many friends that have gone on to them with no job in the end, and I know plenty that graduated in 02. I have a friend that graduated with a 3.9 and he is on his third internship with no job. Things like that scare me, and if anyone of my friends would ever get hired it would be him. He is probably the nicest person I know. Goes to church twice a week and is probably one of the smartest people I know when it comes to aviation. I know some instructors that are still on Riddle's line that went through internships with nothing more than a letter of rec. There are pilots with well over 3000 500 multi still looking for that break and I don't want to be in that perdictament and that is sorta why I feel the way I do.

The only people that I know that are actually making a living in the regionals are those that spent the money to pay for training, I know one kid that is flying for Colgan but he paid for the type rating or something like that. I know another kid flying for Merlin, internship that you pay 10,000 for the hours then maybe get hired. I know another kid that paid for a type rating in a Gulfstream 4 in which he is flying corporate. It seems that the only people that I know that are getting anywhere someway or another paid for there job. In no way am I saying that is a good thing but I am saying those are the people that might make a major before there 30 instead of my last flight instructor making $22 dollars an hour flying a seminole around at 28 yrs old. I mean it is good money but it is also where you get stuck.

I have thought about what I would do if lets say I go through the mesa program and don't get hired. I would be that much more in debt and would probably go and get my CFI and work that route for a while. Build some time and keep submitting resumes.

And on another note I already have an in with Jet Blue but I have to meet the requirements to get the job. Which I don't see myself getting anytime soon sitting in a 172 hoping to get a multi student.

FAA Airline Transport Pilot (ATP) Certification.

1500 hours total time in airplanes (excluded: Helo, Sim, F/E time)**

1000 hours turbine in airplanes**

1000 hours PIC

1000 hours in airplanes equal to or greater than 20,000 pounds (max take off weight)**
Recency of flight experience will be considered.
Current FAA Class 1 Medical Certificate
FCC Radio License
Current Passport
Three reference letters from pilots who can personally attest to the candidates flying skills (must bring originals to interview)

There are many factors that play into this and it seems that I want to make the most benificial decision to get to where I want to be the fastest. I believe there are gambles in life and sometimes you just need to get lucky. Be at the right place at the right time. I figure that with going through the Mesa program I will gain valuable experience and hopefully land a underpaid over worked job. If not my resume will look a little more appealing to other airlines with the experience in the CRJ. I believe we will all make it to the airlines one day it is just a matter of time and what you are willing to do to make it there. I believe there are some that have the drive to get things done and there are those that hope something will come to them. Attitude is everything and in the end that is what will win a job over. I believe getting the interview is the hardest part of the process. Then it is up to you to lose it because sitting in there you already have the job.
 
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So lets say you go through the pace program and get your interview but they are not hiring at the time? You are then sent to a pool with others in your same predictament, but when they do restart hiring who do they hire first? The poolies or the fresh ones right from the program, where the knowledge is still fresh for the most part.


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Aloft is correct, you are interviewed based on your program completion date.
The program is awesome. It took my flying knowledge to an entirely different level. But....you only get out of it what you put into it. If you are a serious student, are eager to learn, and have a good attitude, you are pretty much set.
Also, It only cost me around $10k..not 12 to 15k...but I think it depends on how quickly you complete your stage checks.
 
Is there anyway to get it done with less than the 10,000 even. I would be going in with 10 hours and a good background on the systems and everything else. I am really looking for the experience, but more importaantly the interview. So the cheaper I could get it done the better.

Do you get a type rating in the CRJ and if not how many more hours money would it cost?

Just thinking because you are getting so many hours in there. It can't be much more.
 
Less than 10k? No. Also, I just remembered that you would be in the CRJ Sim....I was in the 1900 which was a little cheaper. The only variable cost is the Baron sim and the Baron plane itself. If you can finish quickly, it is a little cheaper.
CRJ type rating? No type rating...I thought somebody already answered that question in another post. Maybe I am hallucinating or something.

There is a slight stigma on PACE students because some of the PACE guys from previous years had a "know-it-all" attitude. Don't go in there with that attitude, it can only hurt you. Go there to learn, and you will. Then, an interview will be waiting for you when your done.
Call the school...they are really good about answering questions.
Good luck.
 
"There are pilots with well over 3000 500 multi still looking for that break and I don't want to be in that perdictament"

That's the way this business is sometimes. Those guys are working their way up the hard way...the traditional way. I also find it hard to believe they couldn't have moved into 135 freight and larger equipment if they so chose with 1000 multi.

People that PFT may be ahead of the pack but they are doing a disservice to the career by going that route.

I wish they wouldn't give jet type ratings to low time pilots....it just seems so wrong. I had 1000 turbine and like 3000 total before I got my first type rating.

You can get anything, anymore, if you're willing to pay for it....
 
And I was reading on the mesa forum that they used to give the type rating and I was just wondering if it was the same way because it seems that you would have enough time in the cockpit to be atleast very close. I am definitly going to learn. I took a look at the CRJ manual and lets just say it is going to take a long time to get the hang of those systems. I am still keeping my options open but this looks like a really good opportunity to get my foot in the door to a long career. I have heard a lot of bad things about Mesa but I have also heard a lot of good. So we will see what happends in the end.
 
Just to dispell the rumor that the PACE program costs $12,000-$15,000, I just finished the classroom portion (with Kellwolf's friend) and it will end up costing about $9,100. Each individual will pay a slightly different amount depending on their proficiency in the Baron. They estimate that it will take 20 hours in the Frasca 242 and 10 hours in the Baron, but I did less than 6 hours in each (including checkrides), saving several thousand dollars. The $12,000 they estimate, in my opinion, is worst case scenario.

For the record, the PACE program is great training, and at this point, seems to be a proven alternate to the CFI route to get to the regionals. I understand there is some debate on the inexeperience of the pilots from San Juan, but after going through 12 weeks of CRJ systems and going through the exact same syllabus of simulator training that they do in initial ground school (40 hours), I feel that the typical MAPD grad would be as prepared as any 1500 hour CFI. I fully agree that the experience that the CFI would bring to the cockpit is valuable, but since there is an experienced captain there already, the systems knowledge and additional sim training of the MAPD guy might be just as important.

Anyway, if anyone has any specific questions on the PACE program, just let me know.
 
kismet

I'm curious as to what you earn at PACE that you can use outside of Mesa (flight hours, ratings if any, etc..). As aloft mentioned, if you do not get hired after PACE then what do you take from the training that you can apply to another flying job...
 
This is the reason that even if I get accepted into PACE, I might still go to ATP and do their 14 day CFI, CFII, MEI program. That is IF I hit the lottery this week....
 
That is the same option that I am considering. With mesa hiring all the poolies it is in our favor we will also get hired but nothing is a sure bet. So if all else fails I will go off to ATP and gain hours the cfi way. But God willing there will be a seat in the CRJ or anything that carries passengers for that matter.
 
Tazman, when are you looking at going? I'm shooting for next August, but it might be Jan 2005. I still need to get my Comm Multi out of the way, and I'm three classes away from my AS doing distance learning.
 
I am looking at possibly going in June or the next class starting around june. I graduate in early may with finishing our CRJ sim so it will still be fresh on my mind to make going in there a little easier with the systems and such. I am not sure when to send in my application though. I have heard to get it over there as soon as possible but I also heard that you have to go there to get the interview. Which coming from FL would be kinda hard and expensive unless they offer some sort of free privledges or discounts with the airlines. I am about 75% sure but keeping my options open. I am going to give them a call sometime this week and get all the details. Maybe I will see you there depending on when the classes start.
 
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