Another MedEvac Helicopter Down

Mike, do you know anything about the Soloy STC on the B2?

Yeah, Soloy does a STC for those, as well as the BA/B and I think the D model also of the AStar. Am familiar with the basics of the STC, engine and gearbox replacements, but haven't flown one, though I don't believe there's a major change in performance.
 
It's a very dangerous side of our industry. And, a very tough one to further regulate due to the nature of the mission.

Those considering going into this profession, as pilots, flight nurses, gotta be aware of the risks.
 
It's a very dangerous side of our industry. And, a very tough one to further regulate due to the nature of the mission.

Those considering going into this profession, as pilots, flight nurses, gotta be aware of the risks.
To your first paragraph


That is completely false. The nature of the "mission" does not negate any applicable regulation or necessitate acceptance of increased risk.
 
To your first paragraph


That is completely false. The nature of the "mission" does not negate any applicable regulation or necessitate acceptance of increased risk.

I actually see what the both of you are saying. Surreal 's contention that the mission of EMS, especially on the rotary wing side, carries much more inherent risk just due to the nature of the mission, than say flying in an airliner at cruise altitude. Thats just a fact: Comparing the day to day "missions" of each, is truly apples and oranges in terms of risk.

Now, does this mean that it should be accepted that simply due to the risk, that "people knew what they signed up for...."; and there should or shouldn't be X or Y regulation? No. Not necessarily. Or that "well, it's risky and that's that". Again, no. So I see your side too.

I do see where the both of you are coming from, perspective-wise.
 
It's a very dangerous side of our industry. And, a very tough one to further regulate due to the nature of the mission.

Those considering going into this profession, as pilots, flight nurses, gotta be aware of the risks.

To be fair, the fixed wing side has roughly the same accident rate as any pax air taxi. And we follow all of the 135 rules. Not a single exception.
We turn flights down all the time I would have blasted off in a second as a freight pilot. If there's a good chance we can't make the airport of intended landing(not go missed) it's not worth the fuel. We'll wait until wx gets better or when I flew down south, they could just drive.
 
To be fair, the fixed wing side has roughly the same accident rate as any pax air taxi. And we follow all of the 135 rules. Not a single exception.
We turn flights down all the time I would have blasted off in a second as a freight pilot. If there's a good chance we can't make the airport of intended landing(not go missed) it's not worth the fuel. We'll wait until wx gets better or when I flew down south, they could just drive.

And thats where it differs for the rotary wing side. To me, I agree that the fixed wing side of EMS is really no different than any pax air taxi, like you mention. Just different pax. You have the "luxury" of an airport, and going airport to airport, with instrument approaches and navaids and the like. Fixed wing side doesn't have to deal with low level, possibly ducking under/around WX, unestablished or roughly cobbled together Landing Zones that offer everything from obstructions all around them, to brownout or whiteout conditions, to darkness, etc. While there are, and have been, accidents on the fixed wing side; that side of the EMS world is far safer than the rotary wing side not due to anything inherently being done wrong on the RW side, in my opinion, but rather just the nature of the beast of the RW ops versus the FW ops as it relates to EMS work. Which Im sure you'd agree. For the RW side, there's no one smoking gun of causal factors that if mitigated, would magically reduce the number of accidents/incidents, without there being some large negative mission impact.
 
I I agree entirely. Heck most of my "patients" right now walk on and off the aircraft on their own two legs. We're a slightly glorified air taxi.

Question though, what could you do even with negative mission impact? Our stance is no patient is worth a single crew member. It defeats the purpose of what we do.
 
Question though, what could you do even with negative mission impact? Our stance is no patient is worth a single crew member. It defeats the purpose of what we do.

Completely agree. Just like in the fire department.....doesn't help a situation to, as a rescuer, end up becoming a victim yourself.

Where I see a large issue is exactly in this area though, however I can't say whether it's endemic, or only happens here and there. And thats where you'll get the crew (for example) who is faced with bad or rough environmentals......be it weather, dark night, area at night that is challenging, etc; and they get a call for X patient who a victim of X car accident.....again, just using an example. They make the call that its not particularly safe to go at this time, for the conditions I cited above, and ultimately for the reasoning you cite in your response above. All good, fair calls. Now, take the same conditions, same situation, but substitute the adult patient/victim, with now a 5 yr old female patient/victim. I've seen where there have been crews that...at worst.... have went ahead and launched in the same conditions that they wouldn't have before; and at best.....have considered and tried to find any way to launch and go, when they wouldn't have before, yet still ended up not going. This is one of those areas of the RW EMS side that no one wants to really talk about, so they go with the accepted logic of "no patient is worth a single life of ours", when in reality, they don't truly believe that deep down. But how do any of us really go about changing that, even if we could honestly identify it.

Second area is inadverent IMC. In the fixed-wing side, if you go inadverent IMC, big whoop. Who cares. If its not something you'll instantly be out of, then you climb, clear terrain, contact ATC, get a clearance (assuming you weren't already IFR). It's really a non-factor, generally speaking. Instruments is already what we do (I say we, being dual-qualed), so big deal.

Now take the helicopter that goes inadverent IMC. Chances are, the pilot has already been trying to keep under the weather to avoid it, so he's already very low level. In an AStar, he's in a helo that's not rated for IMC and is minimally equipped. Being a helo guy, instruments isn't really his thing (unless he's dual qualed), as weather avoidance is the key, both legally as well as for aircraft certification; so he's already all hands and elbows just trying to keep the bird upright. He's single pilot, to boot, with all these challenges going on. There's likely no ATC to contact to get a clearance, either being low level or in the middle of nowhere. He doesn't have the fuel to get to anywhere distant where he could shoot an approach compatible with whats on the helo; as fuel is a luxury they can't carry too much of if they want to carry a patient...and there's no speed to divert anywhere anyway that's even remotely distant. He's lost references to where he is, so descending out of the WX without hitting the ground or something attached to the ground isn't an option. In short, he's pretty screwed. It's very likely that if not prepared for an inadverent encounter or at least seeing it coming with some time to prep if only mentally prep; that bird is going to exit the WX straight into the ground.....likely shortly after having entered it. Make that even more shortly, if all the above is going on at night.

Difference betwen the two situations? Simply the nature of the beast of fixed wing ops, versus rotary wing ops; both in general, as well as within EMS itself.
 
We have no clue what is wrong with the patient or their age when I get a call. It's simply - flight from X to Y, can you go? Same thing for all three programs. I don't have any idea why that would be included in the go/no-go phone call.
 
We have no clue what is wrong with the patient or their age when I get a call. It's simply - flight from X to Y, can you go? Same thing for all three programs. I don't have any idea why that would be included in the go/no-go phone call.

Alot of operations do it that way now, no patient demographics for the pilot. RW side, being more of the "911" style operation rather than the interfacility transport side of the operation that FW side is, you get more information of whats going on and demographics involved, as you're usually on the scene of what caused the injuries in the first place. FW, you aren't; as you're generally dealing with aftermath of follow-on care of some sort, versus pre-hospital initial care, more often than not..
 
Yeah, Soloy does a STC for those, as well as the BA/B and I think the D model also of the AStar. Am familiar with the basics of the STC, engine and gearbox replacements, but haven't flown one, though I don't believe there's a major change in performance.


I've been hearing there are issues with the engines (similar to the original HH65's) and some of the EagleMed aircraft have that STC.
 
We have no clue what is wrong with the patient or their age when I get a call. It's simply - flight from X to Y, can you go? Same thing for all three programs. I don't have any idea why that would be included in the go/no-go phone call.
Which is great. Don't need patient condition to impact judgement. Except for when you find out the patient weight is 30lbs.
 
Which is great. Don't need patient condition to impact judgement. Except for when you find out the patient weight is 30lbs.

Well ya that does give it away, but I don't get that until after either. It's always in kilos to, which initially, it might as well be in bananas.
 
I get it in lbs because dispatch rocks. Initially to work out W&B.

There is no realistic weight for a human that won't work for us. So W&B becomes a formality, and I don't get the numbers until I get the ready sheet from the fax machine in the hangar. The only time it becomes an issue is for a LONG flight because we only carry 4 hours of fuel. Topping it off can cause overweight issues. Thing is a camel.
 
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