Another lesson for job-seekers

jrh

jrh

Well-Known Member
Here's a scene that played out a few days ago in the office of our flight school:

[Young guy walks in wearing tank top and basketball shorts]

Me: Hi, can I help you?

Guy: Yeah, are you guys hiring CFIs?

Me: Umm...not at the moment, but do you have a resume with you? We can keep you in mind if you want to leave one on file.

Guy: [looks a bit surprised] Uh, no, I don't. I can e-mail you one though. Say, what is the starting pay like?

Me: Starting pay is usually $18/hour, but that is somewhat negotiable and will go up over time if the person is doing a good job.

Guy: Does it depend on experience? Right now I'm working for (insert big name flight academy in a sunny part of the world) and have about 800 hours instruction given, with 350 multi and a lot of G1000 and sim time in a Level 1 FTD.

Me: Oh, ok, great. G1000 time would be a plus for us. Have you looked at our web site at all?

Guy: No, not really. Do you guys stay very busy? About how many hours/month do you fly?

Me: It's fairly seasonal. Last summer I was billing 120-140 hours/month, but over the winter it was more like 60-80/month...




Then we chatted a bit about what brought him to the area, what his long term goals were, etc.



The problem is, I can say this guy has about a 0.2% chance of getting hired with us, and here's why:

He showed up wearing clothes one would typically play basketball in, not interview for a job in.
He didn't have a resume ready to go.
He didn't seem to care about anything except pay and flight time from the moment he walked in the door.
He focused on qualifications irrelevant to our operation. I don't care if you have 6000 multi and 10,000 hours in a sim because we don't use those pieces of equipment, nor do they fit the demographic of our clients.
He did practically zero research on who we are or what we're about. He hadn't even bothered to look at our web site or find out what we fly.

Bottom line: If you do this over and over, you'll probably get hired by somebody out there, sooner or later. If you actually want a specific job though, treat every place you walk in the door of as a potential on-the-spot interview.
 
Maybe he just happened to be in the area and wanted to check you guys out. I went to many jobs, not recently, in track warm-up gear and the like just to inquire about a job. Once I got called in for an interview or to meet the supervisors, the professional Ed came out.
I would think credentials weigh alot more than someone who is looking GQ.
 
Sprint100 said:
Maybe he just happened to be in the area and wanted to check you guys out. I went to many jobs, not recently, in track warm-up gear and the like just to inquire about a job. Once I got called in for an interview or to meet the supervisors, the professional Ed came out.
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Fair enough. In his defense, the reason he came to the area was because he was ferrying an aircraft and I don't know many pilots who dress up to ferry GA aircraft.

My comments about his general focus and attitude still stand though.

It's never one thing that "gets you" with an interview. If he'd worn the same clothes but had an awesome attitude and seemed like he would fit in with us, I could let the dress slide. For him, it was the general impression that was lacking. At the end of our conversation I couldn't think of a single reason why he would be an improvement to our operation. He didn't seem to care about anything but himself.
 
Maybe he was in the research phase of his job hunting...<o></o><o></o>

I understand what you are saying and agree, but since a formal appointment was not made he might have just been in the area and thought he'd stop in to see what was up. He may have been "interviewing" you and the organization thinking he'd officially apply if he liked what he saw or if there was even an opportunity. I would not discount how busy people can be or when and where an opportunity may come knocking. I gotta tell you, at our aero club we would have been all over him because we have a hard time getting/keeping CFIs. And Yes, a lot of CFIs are just looking for cash and hours, but isn't that how it works? <o></o><o></o>

When I got hired with Delta in Germany I walked into their HR department and said, "I speak English, German and Arabic. You guys hiring?" I was only like 22 years old and did not know any better and my language skills were all I had to offer at the time. The lady said I'd be perfect for the reservations center and told me how to officially submit my application. Granted I did not go there right after a b-ball game, but sometimes the best way to get a job is by pounding the pavement...3 weeks later I was in training at bottom of the totem pole at DL.<o></o><o></o>

Of course when I went the interview I did all the stuff you mention. The hiring manager said I was the only applicant who knew how DL got started as an airline. Pretty good considering that when I applied you still had to go to the library to look stuff up. Heck DL did not even have a website back then.
 
jrh said:
Fair enough. In his defense, the reason he came to the area was because he was ferrying an aircraft and I don't know many pilots who dress up to ferry GA aircraft.

My comments about his general focus and attitude still stand though.

It's never one thing that "gets you" with an interview. If he'd worn the same clothes but had an awesome attitude and seemed like he would fit in with us, I could let the dress slide. For him, it was the general impression that was lacking. At the end of our conversation I couldn't think of a single reason why he would be an improvement to our operation. He didn't seem to care about anything but himself.
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I agree with that after you mentioned that one little word...ATTITUDE. That is everything. Attitude doesn't change with clothes unless you are flat broke and happy to finally be in some nice clothes, or a nice haircut:D
 
Ramsey said:
Maybe he was in the research phase of his job hunting...
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That's fine, I've been in the same spot myself. Just be ready to get interviewed if you walk in the doors, even if you're only trying to do research.

Ramsey said:
I understand what you are saying and agree, but since a formal appointment was not made he might have just been in the area and thought he'd stop in to see what was up.
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If that was the case, he should have made that more clear from the start. Literally his first words to me were, "Are you hiring CFIs?" That gave me the impression that he wanted to work for us and I went in to my "evaluating" mind set.

Ramsey said:
He may have been "interviewing" you and the organization thinking he'd officially apply if he liked what he saw or if there was even an opportunity.
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Fair enough. But people need to understand that their interview of an employer will also leave an impression on the employer. It's a lot better to get offered a job, then start asking questions to decide if the job is worth having, rather than never getting offered the job to begin with.

Ramsey said:
I gotta tell you, at our aero club we would have been all over him because we have a hard time getting/keeping CFIs. And Yes, a lot of CFIs are just looking for cash and hours, but isn't that how it works?
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First, at our operation, that's not really how it works.

Second, even if it were how it works, there are more diplomatic ways of bringing that information out in the open. I'm reminded of the scene from "A Beautiful Mind" when the uber genius math nerd is talking to a woman at a bar and basically says, "When can we stop the small talk and go have sex?" It's just not the socially accepted way to communicate, even if the end result is the same.
 
Even if I'm ferrying a plane and have nothing but stinky clothes, I'm going to find the nearest Walmart to get a buttondown and pants for $40.

Just because I'm shopping potential employers doesn't mean that I should dress sub-standard, or now have done any research before hand.

D wondered last night why it is taking me 2 days to send out a resume - because I'm researching the job...
 
Free tip:

When you walk into a place for the first time to look for a job, have a resume in hand and try not to look like a bum who just stumbled into the place on the way to the beach. It's perfectly fine (imho) to actually "stumble" into the place - but I'd try to do it with some style. I found it extremely helpful (as employee or prospective employee) to pretend to be a customer looking around, to get a general idea about the atmosphere of a place. Reason being: "If you can't treat me well as a customer, how are you going to retain me as an employee?" I think we all get out if it what we put in. McDonalds is always hiring as they are not much affected by peoples inability to justify $200/hour flight lessons. 5 Bucks makes you a customer @McD - and becoming a employee (compared to our profession) is even FREE. Funny how McD employees wear ties and uniforms, don't you think?
 
I can see if maybe he was just in the area, and didn't have any nice clothes with him, but the least he could have done was explain why he was dressed that way. It probably would have been a good ice breaker anyways. My advice, if you're gonna look for a job, dress like they are going to give it to you right there. I guarantee you will have much more favorable results.
 
The thing that rubs me is when somebody rolls in the door like they are hot and state, "Hey, I just got laid off from XYZ regional and I've got 400 hours in the CRJ, you guys hiring?"

Who cares how much jet time you have dork. This is a flight school, not a regional airline! Either way first impressions are wonderful for filtering out the riff raf.
 
You've got to play to win and bring your "A-Game" when you're looking for a job.

Sure there are exceptions to the rule like there are exceptions everywhere, but that first impression that he left obviously wasn't stellar and may overshadow who may be a good applicant in a competitive environment.

I remember when I was working the front desk between students and this guy walks in with a resume and starts looking around. Slight introduction and he started asking questions about how many "multis" we have and how much "multi" am I getting on a monthly basis, blah blah blah. How it was working with the "Broken English" Korean and Indian students (Our Indian students, by the way, spoke the "Queen's English" far better than most of us Americans) and how he was a UAL intern at SJC, SJSU grad and how he's got a guaranteed UAL interview when his number comes up.

Not like I asked about that, but that's cool. I remember being a hot head when I was fresh out of Riddle and thought that my crap didn't stink either.

He drops a resume off, and I do due diligence and take it into the owner's office.

He says, "The door was open, are you for real? You know where to put that. Here's $20, if you go to Super Burrito, get you and me one too."
 
pfft. dont go giving away the "secrets" of not being a toolbag!!

really, do people need tips on basic social/professional behavior?
 
TXaviator said:
pfft. dont go giving away the "secrets" of not being a toolbag!!

really, do people need tips on basic social/professional behavior?
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Yes.

Oh, another story of yore.

I walked in my resignation to the office at my last regional and the CP had the audacity to say that if I didn't pass ground school at Southernjets, I would not be welcomed back to work there.

Two weeks later when I was dropping by the office, after being berated for not accepting a trip that would have extended me past the day I was resigning, he handed me his resume and asked if I'd be kind enough to walk it in when I got to Georgia.

And he wonders why, when I saw him in the food court in ORD about five years ago, how I still remembered his name after all this time.
 
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