Snuggle
Well-Known Member
Take another look, their not close at all. Air Canada rates are significantly higher. On both sides, FO and CA.
Another Colgan Rumor
- Thread starter Seggy
- Start date
Take another look, their not close at all. Air Canada rates are significantly higher. On both sides, FO and CA.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Unlike that "other" ATL-based airline, we haven't sold out our scope. I'm sure our management would love an opportunity to give a bunch of our flying to an airline like Colgan, but we'll never give up the scope.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Praise baby jesus. . .save the seals.
Airdale
Well-Known Member
You can't compare a US flag carrier and what they pay to another flag carrier. Look at what our Legacies pay compared to British Airways, Air France and even Air Canada for wide body equipment. Colgan pilots are paid on average $10 less per hour (Captain) in comparable aircraft for US FLAG carriers.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
As you can see, those are 50-seat airplanes, not 78-seat airplanes. We allow 50-seaters, because quite frankly, the company doesn't get any economic advantage from outsourcing that flying. That's why they stopped the outsourcing after only a few months. Our scope doesn't differentiate between props and jets, so anything with more than 70 seats is prohibited from being outsourced. If they want to strip the Q400 down to 69 seats, then they can do so, but they are also tightly limited on the number of block hours that they can outsource. Basically, the scope is tight enough where it makes it completely not worthwhile.
Screaming_Emu
Joe Conventional
Alchemy
Well-Known Member
I would not really blame colgan pilots if the RJ's start getting scrapped because of the Q400's. Fuel is so high that pilot costs are probably a fairly small part of the equation (all the more reason to demand a decent wage).
Instead I blame the ineptitude of regional airline managers for parking their turbopropos when it's obvious that demand for them is increasing. Then again, mainline partners would rather award new airframes to a "budget" operator like colgan than give them to an established regional partner like say ASA, expressjet, PSA, piedmont, comair, etc and I think pilot costs are one of the reasons for that. Mainline management is very shrewd and destroying bargaining power by regional pilots/airlines by playing the shrink-grow game. Your huge order this year become a fleet of scrapped airplanes next year.
Many regional airline managements seem to be arguing that they'd rather "focus" on a single RJ fleet type than deal with the added costs of a turboprop fleet.....what good does that do you if your focus is on a type rapidly descending into obseletion?
Instead I blame the ineptitude of regional airline managers for parking their turbopropos when it's obvious that demand for them is increasing. Then again, mainline partners would rather award new airframes to a "budget" operator like colgan than give them to an established regional partner like say ASA, expressjet, PSA, piedmont, comair, etc and I think pilot costs are one of the reasons for that. Mainline management is very shrewd and destroying bargaining power by regional pilots/airlines by playing the shrink-grow game. Your huge order this year become a fleet of scrapped airplanes next year.
Many regional airline managements seem to be arguing that they'd rather "focus" on a single RJ fleet type than deal with the added costs of a turboprop fleet.....what good does that do you if your focus is on a type rapidly descending into obseletion?
Trip7
Well-Known Member
Fair enough Seggy. You're absolutely right. Mainline lost its scope and now management uses it so that regionals can fight over the scraps. Thats a clear example of whats happening here.
However, I would like for Colgan to stay right where they are up North or go invade somebody else's turf. Because you guys coming in here is taking money out our pocket, and as much as I love you Seggy and the other friends I got at Colgan, I like my money more. And Im sure you feel exactly the the same way. I would too if I was at Colgan. Every man for himself.
We often like to jump on here and start singing kumbaya and all that about uniting the regional pilot groups etc etc. Thats never going to happen fellas. Our companies compete against one another. The mainline guys cant pick all of us to do their flying. Its war out there. May the best or cheapest regional win....
beechpilot
Well-Known Member
Another Colgan rumor I heard today was the possibility of hiring in the near future which didn't make a whole lot of sense with the reductions this fall. However, I could see this being the case next year with the addition of more Q400's.
Trip7
Well-Known Member
For some reason I think every airline is going to be extremely shortstaffed come Christmas time...
v1valarob
Well-Known Member
I have heard from pretty much everyone that there wont be furloughs come November. There is still 200 hours of open time for Saab FOs for the rest of the month!
I have heard from a few people that if attrition continues the way it is, and we dont lose anymore flying to expect Colgan to be hiring come November. We run a damn lean ship.
Cruise
Well-Known Member
Don't allow yourself, or anyone else for that matter, to fall for the oldest management trick in the book. If the deal has been signed, we'll get the planes regardless of what happens w/ contract negotiations. However, mgmt types would have you believe otherwise.
To reiterate:
Our getting Q's has absolutely NOTHING to do with the upcoming vote.
Vote YES to ALPA and improve the work rules at CJC.
I can't stress this enough. Do not allow fear-mongering to ruin OUR company. We need ALPA representation and having them on property will not affect getting more Q's on property.
:tmyk:
Trip7
Well-Known Member
Food for rumot thought:
"Delta has also agreed that if Delta solicits requests for proposals to fly Delta Connection regional aircraft, ASA will be permitted to bid to maintain the same percentage of total Delta Connection regional jet flights that it operated during 2007, and, if ASA does not achieve the winning bid for the proposed flying, ASA will be permitted to match the terms of the winning bid to the extent necessary for ASA to maintain its percentage of Delta Connection regional jet flying that it operated during 2007."
Ref: page 15 Skywest 10-Q
"Delta has also agreed that if Delta solicits requests for proposals to fly Delta Connection regional aircraft, ASA will be permitted to bid to maintain the same percentage of total Delta Connection regional jet flights that it operated during 2007, and, if ASA does not achieve the winning bid for the proposed flying, ASA will be permitted to match the terms of the winning bid to the extent necessary for ASA to maintain its percentage of Delta Connection regional jet flying that it operated during 2007."
Ref: page 15 Skywest 10-Q
sherpa
Well-Known Member
No Q's till mid 2010. the q's will be next gen ie bigger cabin and overheads. no mention who they will fly for. This ATL thing appears to have been just another retention rumor or morale rumor planted by management.
http://biz.yahoo.com/iw/080811/0423564.html
http://biz.yahoo.com/iw/080811/0423564.html
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Does that mean no downgrades either rob?
A CJC HR lady told me that until this month, they had a 50% attrition rate on the FO side for first year guys and that was a higher drop off than last year when other regionals and majors were hiring. She and a CJC captain said plainly that FO's could go bag groceries for more money and since there was no upgrade in sight they had no cause to stay. That doesn't sound shocking to me, but I was wondering if that was truly what CJC line pilots feel has been going on.
Trip7
Well-Known Member
sherpa
Well-Known Member
dunno bout fifty percent but it is waaay up there.
Cruise
Well-Known Member
That wouldn't surprise me one bit. I'm sure they'd do, or say, anything to maintain status quo.
