An interesting day at Gallatin Feild

flyboywbl

3rd regional in 1 year
Well Wednesday was interesting at the flight school. I always wondered what would happen if an RJ had to go around. Now i know.

A student pilot on his second solo ever in the pattern got confused and turned base to final when he was not cleared to land. This was due to a busy pattern and an incoming RJ. Not to mention that the radio's were blowing up due to people flying practice approaches.

The student was told to make a right 360 (he was on the left downwind for 12). A company diamond passed him and he was told to follow the company diamond.

I'm not sure how he got from the left downwind following the other diamond to the next step but this is all i know.

Any way the RJ was cleared to land on short final and said something in the way of "Tower what's this traffic doing in front of us?"

The tower immediately got on the radio and told the RJ to go around and screamed "Diamond on final, land immediately, and GET OFF THE RUNWAY!!!"

I was flying with the owner of the flight school at the time. We got back and put the plane away and there was a mob in the lobby trying to figure out what to do. The owner, the student's CFI and the CFI of the other planes flying (ie witnesses) went over to the tower to listen to the tapes.

The student stayed in the lobby on the couch with his sunglasses on. He did not move or say a word. I think he knew he screwed up badly. I felt bad for him. I knew he screwed up but it was on his second solo. Not a good motivator to keep going.

I'm assuming he filled out a NASA form right away along with his CFI. My question is what do you think will happen to the student pilot and his CFI? I've been told it's better to have something like this on your record as a student pilot rather than a private. I dunno what do you all think? I've heard wind that the CFI will have to take another checkride.

I remember when i was soloing for the first time. I had a situation like this almost happen. you train as much as you can but you really can't go over every possible scenario with your CFI. They just give you the tools and you have to apply them.

I guess this just reiterates the fact that it never hurts to ask for your clearance/instructions again.

-Matt
 

Cessnaflyer

Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
It shouldn't be that bad.

I did a similar thing when I was a student by cutting off traffic I was told to follow. I spotted a 152 ahead that I thought was the called traffic and followed that.

I doubt the CFI will have to take a ride because it most likely was a misunderstanding by the student and the student just didn't clarify over the radio.
 

adreamer

Well-Known Member
I felt bad for that student. :(

I go by the rule, especially in busy and ATC controlled traffic pattern:

"When ATC ask you to follow traffic in the pattern, you are doing ATC job by providing your own seperation. I do not think you get paid by doing so. Let the ATCs do their jobs" ;)

an airline captian
 

flyboywbl

3rd regional in 1 year
Re: An interesting day at Gallatin Field

I think if it was a GA plane it would of been fine. The fact that it was an RJ that had to go around made all the difference. I think the tower has to fill out paperwork for making the airlines go around. But i did feel really bad for the student. I know his CFI was sweating it as well. He is young with not that many student's under his belt. I think he is barely 22 and has been working since last Feb.
 

ZapBrannigan

Old School
Re: An interesting day at Gallatin Field

Nothing will come of it. Stuff happens. The RJ pilot should send a thank-you note.

Go-arounds pay more than landings.
 

BobDDuck

Island Bus Driver
It happens. At least it was at a towered airport where somebody could get control of the situation. I've been bounced off of final in the jet twice now at uncontrolled airports (once by an V22 and once by a Cessna). Both times they made no radio calls and dropped in for a short approach right in front of us. Made for an interesting few seconds but we train for that stuff pretty regularly in the sim so it's really a non event.

As far as the guy getting in trouble? Probably not too much. Mistakes happen, especially in a teaching environment.
 

SeattlePilot

Well-Known Member
I felt bad for that student. :(

I go by the rule, especially in busy and ATC controlled traffic pattern:

"When ATC ask you to follow traffic in the pattern, you are doing ATC job by providing your own seperation. I do not think you get paid by doing so. Let the ATCs do their jobs" ;)

an airline captian
Most of the Class D airspace is not responsible for your separation. They cannot provide that service as they are not equipped with radar or they get their feed from an approach. They can recommend what to do, but they cannot provide airspace separation.
 

killbilly

Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
It shouldn't be that bad.

I did a similar thing when I was a student by cutting off traffic I was told to follow. I spotted a 152 ahead that I thought was the called traffic and followed that.

I doubt the CFI will have to take a ride because it most likely was a misunderstanding by the student and the student just didn't clarify over the radio.
I did exactly this on my first solo flight - tower called traffic to follow, and I mis-identified the plane I was supposed to follow, and ended up cutting someone off on a long final.

It was a non-issue. My CFI was in the tower cab when it happened.

Then again, at TKI, they're used to student pilots, so I suppose they expected that I would do something dumb.
 

flyboywbl

3rd regional in 1 year
Yah our tower guys (except for one) are not the nicest. But then again i probably would not be either if I had to watch DA-20's do touch and goes all day. Our school actually go rid of touch and goes for pre-solo and solo students so that they don't screw up during a go around. Our owner was flying with a student who had soloed and told him to do a go around after a bunch of touch and goes. Like clockwork the student popped up the flaps and they began plummeting to the ground. To compensate what do you think the student did instead of adding power? he started pitching up. The instructor had to take the plane and now we are required to come to a full stop and taxi back. It makes sense though. What if that student was soloing and tried to do the same thing? He probably would not of save the plane or him self. Any way, our students really like it because the instructor can take the taxi, let them cool off, and explain stuff. It's a lot easier to explain something to a student when they are not trying to fly the plane. No complaints yet on the money spend during the taxi backs but i'm sure someone will have a problem with it at some point.
 
R

Roger, Roger

Guest
Our school actually go rid of touch and goes for pre-solo and solo students so that they don't screw up during a go around.
We did that as well for solo student pilots. I'm sure it does take a little bit of extra time, but all in all I believe it's a good idea. There are a lot of ways to screw up a touch and go, especially if you are a jittery, excited solo student pilot.
 

JulietBravo

On Call, On Demand
We did that as well for solo student pilots. I'm sure it does take a little bit of extra time, but all in all I believe it's a good idea. There are a lot of ways to screw up a touch and go, especially if you are a jittery, excited solo student pilot.
We do the exact same thing. Last year, we had a student pilot soloing on one runway, then another airplane doing a low approach on the opposite runway. Eventually, as the student pilot was rolling down the runway adding power, apparently he was busy watching the plane on the low approach fly over him (the plane did do a sidestep and was not over the runway), and he let the plane pull him to the left and hit a taxi light and sign. Plane went to be repaired for the next 6 months. So now no more touch and gos for student pilots.

Lesson learned.
 

SoCalAprch

Well-Known Member
Shouldn't be that big of deal for the CFI or the student. I had an Indian student screw up the whole pattern for about 5 minutes because he kept calling out left downwind when he was on a right downwind. Many planes had to go around.

Also another student (not mine this time :)) in San Diego went down to do touch and gos at Brown Field which is less than a mile from Tijuana. The runways pretty much line up at the two airports. Well the tower was closed at Brown and he was doing touch and gos in Tijuana while making his uncontrolled callouts on Browns frequency. Took the Mexicans about 4 touch and gos before they figured out what was going on and tuned in on Browns Tower to tell him that he was at the wrong airport. The FAA didn't even say anything, it was the border patrol who showed up to do the questioning.
 
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