Amflight B1900/B99 D.E.C.?

[Boris Badenov]

It doesn't where I work... When you are the customer, you aren't treated like a piece of meat in training. I have more fun in recurrent than any other training event I have had.

I don't want to jinx myself, since I'm about to go back. But the last time I was there, Simuflite was like freaking summer-camp next to any of the "in the airplane" freight training I've done. I kept waiting for them to break out the Smores and campfire songs. There's a huge difference between "Well let's see if this joker can make it" and "We're paying you a lot of money to give this guy a type."

Which is not to say that my sphincter won't be 100% clenched this time, too. There's just something about a guy you don't know sitting behind you with the power to send you back to pizza-delivery which makes you Pay Attention and possibly perspire a bit.

 

[z987k]

I don't want to jinx myself, since I'm about to go back. But the last time I was there, Simuflite was like freaking summer-camp next to any of the "in the airplane" freight training I've done. I kept waiting for them to break out the Smores and campfire songs. There's a huge difference between "Well let's see if this joker can make it" and "We're paying you a lot of money to give this guy a type."

Which is not to say that my sphincter won't be 100% clenched this time, too. There's just something about a guy you don't know sitting behind you with the power to send you back to pizza-delivery which makes you Pay Attention and possibly perspire a bit.

That was my experience with FSI as well. Summer camp sounds about right considering it was in LGB.

 

[Tommay85]

So there's a base that doesn't work you to the bone, pays pilots 10 grand more than every other base, and doesn't make you feel like if you sneeze you will get fired?

Minus the pay, yes! Peak was 2 days of flying, and reserve on the beach the rest of the week. 2 days off for Chrismas and New Years.

I live and drink rum on the beach and fly to exotic places. Except Venezuela. SCREW Venezuela!!!!

 

[z987k]

Minus the pay, yes! Peak was 2 days of flying, and reserve on the beach the rest of the week. 2 days off for Chrismas and New Years.

I live and drink rum on the beach and fly to exotic places. Except Venezuela. SCREW Venezuela!!!!

And you hate every minute!

 

[Tommay85]

Other than the fact that I wish a pack of badgers would attack the sex parts of everyone in PR's government, I'm happy as a clam!

 

[ppragman]

I don't want to jinx myself, since I'm about to go back. But the last time I was there, Simuflite was like freaking summer-camp next to any of the "in the airplane" freight training I've done. I kept waiting for them to break out the Smores and campfire songs. There's a huge difference between "Well let's see if this joker can make it" and "We're paying you a lot of money to give this guy a type."

Which is not to say that my sphincter won't be 100% clenched this time, too. There's just something about a guy you don't know sitting behind you with the power to send you back to pizza-delivery which makes you Pay Attention and possibly perspire a bit.

This is how training is supposed to be - it's supposed to be an engaging and useful learning experience not fear-of-getting-fired-before-you-even-start scary. My 135 "in the airplane" training has generally (with the notable exception of Martex) been trying to figure out which technique the company check airman thinks is the most important then trying to regurgitate that back on the checkride. Not that it's ever been hard, but I always thought the training at FSI and SimCom was better on average. Standardization has been limited at best, usually un-published procedures are "just how we do things" and the regs were interpreted wildly different. At the "simubox" schools things have been presented in a straight-forward manner, easily digestible portion sizes, and relevant simulations.

 

[Inverted]

I don't want to jinx myself, since I'm about to go back. But the last time I was there, Simuflite was like freaking summer-camp next to any of the "in the airplane" freight training I've done. I kept waiting for them to break out the Smores and campfire songs. There's a huge difference between "Well let's see if this joker can make it" and "We're paying you a lot of money to give this guy a type."

Which is not to say that my sphincter won't be 100% clenched this time, too. There's just something about a guy you don't know sitting behind you with the power to send you back to pizza-delivery which makes you Pay Attention and possibly perspire a bit.

My CAE experience wasn't as pleasurable as FSI. That being said, I am on my game to do a good job there but recurrent is a cake walk. In fact even the instructors would come out and drink with us. It's amazing when humans treat other humans, like humans. Oh and in recurrent I actually learn things, I can request to do any scenario in the airplane, at any airport. If I want a TR deployment after V1 in ASE at MTOW, they are happy to do it. Recurrent at AMF isn't recurrent. There is no training involved. You show up and immediately do an oral and check ride.

 

[jtrain609]

My CAE experience wasn't as pleasurable as FSI. That being said, I am on my game to do a good job there but recurrent is a cake walk. In fact even the instructors would come out and drink with us. It's amazing when humans treat other humans, like humans. Oh and in recurrent I actually learn things, I can request to do any scenario in the airplane, at any airport. If I want a TR deployment after V1 in ASE at MTOW, they are happy to do it. Recurrent at AMF isn't recurrent. There is no training involved. You show up and immediately do an oral and check ride.

It was no different where I work now. You did recurrent ground usually the month before your check ride, then you'd come back and do an oral and PC.

With AQP it's train to proficiency and a LOFT scenario as the jeopardy event.

Amflight is doing the same thing every part 121 carrier did.

 

[Inverted]

Paging Dr. @Cal Goat

I'm pretty sure for his 121 they stick you in the sim for a week or two, then a check.

And at AMF you had no recurrent ground , there was no recurrent anything. It was self study, you showed up to a room with a check airmen, and you did the oral and check ride.

 

[jtrain609]

Paging Dr. @Cal Goat

I'm pretty sure for his 121 they stick you in the sim for a week or two, then a check.

And at AMF you had no recurrent ground , there was no recurrent anything. It was self study, you showed up to a room with a check airmen, and you did the oral and check ride.

Man that would have been nice. We showed up cold to our recurrent check rides and we're doing v1 cuts a few minutes later.

Now we get a "warm up" with the mv, in that it can't be pink slipped. But if you run out of time during the mv because you can't do the maneuvers to proficiency, you dequal.

With recurrent ground, it was all academic stuff, and covered nothing about what would be in your check ride.

 

[Inverted]

Man that would have been nice. We showed up cold to our recurrent check rides and we're doing v1 cuts a few minutes later.

Now we get a "warm up" with the mv, in that it can't be pink slipped. But if you run out of time during the mv because you can't do the maneuvers to proficiency, you dequal.

With recurrent ground, it was all academic stuff, and covered nothing about what would be in your check ride.

I could be totally wrong, and I probably am.

A little warm up is nice before being thrown to the fire though.

 

[KLB]

Brasilia recurrent is three days. 2 days of ground and one 4hr sim session. Then a checkride on the third day.

Metro recurrent is similar.

Been with the company over six years. What keeps me here? Job stability, home every night, not having to take a pay cut to go anywhere else, and only 3 flyung days a week.

I want to leave. It's not necessarily because I hate my job. It's more that I want to progress my career. There's more money out there and I want to make it.

Other than that, there's not much I can complain about here.

 

[Inverted]

Brasilia recurrent is three days. 2 days of ground and one 4hr sim session. Then a checkride on the third day.

Metro recurrent is similar.

That sounds just fine, I wonder if it is because they are done at FSI?

 

[KLB]

AMF only uses flight safety's facility but it's still AMF training captains.

 

[Inverted]

AMF only uses flight safety's facility but it's still AMF training captains.

I know, I just wonder why recurrent is multi-day for those airframes. Is it like that for the 1900 too as it is done completely in house?

 

[KLB]

I'm not sure if it's for the 1900. My best guess as to why would be the complexity of the aircraft.

Although we all agree flying the Chieftan to SOP is the equivalent of piloting a space shuttle, system wise...it's not all that complicated of an aircraft. The 99 is even easier.

The company has really shifted more toward CBT type system of training lately. So although pilots may not think that they are receiving any recurrent, it's all covered in the quarterly CBT's. Aircraft systems and all.

 

[Cal Goat]

Paging Dr. @Cal Goat

I'm pretty sure for his 121 they stick you in the sim for a week or two, then a check.

And at AMF you had no recurrent ground , there was no recurrent anything. It was self study, you showed up to a room with a check airmen, and you did the oral and check ride.

Initials sims at my company was almost a week long. I want to say it was 3 or 4 days of training and practicing the maneuvers and then 1 day for the checkride. Recurrent (AQP) is 1 day in the class and 2 days at the sim.

To me, the difference from Amflight was much like you mentioned already where one group is treating it like a military drill and the other group treats it like a progressive learning environment.

The sim instructors were night and day between both places. And obviously the failure rate at AMF is exponentially higher. Which is fine except for one little issue:
Why would anyone want to risk the training failure for lower pay over a longer period of time? Also, the QOL is lower for the majority of people who experience it. After all, how many AMF pilots get to hang out on the beach in PR? My guess is 5 or less. And perhaps more telling- How many AMF pilots end up going to a regional anyway?

Going back to the topic of training: The Ratmada in Burbank is a perfect analogy for the respect that AMF gives its pilots (just my opinion based on my experiences). My current employer paid me for the ENTIRE time I was in training and the accommodations felt like the Ritz compared to the old Ramada.

In closing, I'd just like to add that we all do this presumably because we love flying. So at the end of the day, the most important thing in addition to flying is the QOL. I chuckle every time an AMF pilot talks like they've discovered some secret back door to the whole flying career thing. Hell, I thought that way too when I was there. If there is an AMF advantage, it only exists for a tiny, tiny minority of the pilots that will go through there.

Play the odds, I say.

 

[Tommay85]

Brasilia recurrent is three days. 2 days of ground and one 4hr sim session. Then a checkride on the third day.

Metro recurrent is similar.

Been with the company over six years. What keeps me here? Job stability, home every night, not having to take a pay cut to go anywhere else, and only 3 flyung days a week.

I want to leave. It's not necessarily because I hate my job. It's more that I want to progress my career. There's more money out there and I want to make it.

Other than that, there's not much I can complain about here.

Unless you're based in PR. It's still *here's your check airman, go fly perfectly* kind of deal. Usually in the 99 for most of us. Which I think is harder than the Metro during emergency situations. Though I feel there's much more of a "shotgun pass" if you do poorly here.

 

[Tommay85]

Initials sims at my company was almost a week long. I want to say it was 3 or 4 days of training and practicing the maneuvers and then 1 day for the checkride. Recurrent (AQP) is 1 day in the class and 2 days at the sim.

To me, the difference from Amflight was much like you mentioned already where one group is treating it like a military drill and the other group treats it like a progressive learning environment.

The sim instructors were night and day between both places. And obviously the failure rate at AMF is exponentially higher. Which is fine except for one little issue:
Why would anyone want to risk the training failure for lower pay over a longer period of time? Also, the QOL is lower for the majority of people who experience it. After all, how many AMF pilots get to hang out on the beach in PR? My guess is 5 or less. And perhaps more telling- How many AMF pilots end up going to a regional anyway?

Going back to the topic of training: The Ratmada in Burbank is a perfect analogy for the respect that AMF gives its pilots (just my opinion based on my experiences). My current employer paid me for the ENTIRE time I was in training and the accommodations felt like the Ritz compared to the old Ramada.

In closing, I'd just like to add that we all do this presumably because we love flying. So at the end of the day, the most important thing in addition to flying is the QOL. I chuckle every time an AMF pilot talks like they've discovered some secret back door to the whole flying career thing. Hell, I thought that way too when I was there. If there is an AMF advantage, it only exists for a tiny, tiny minority of the pilots that will go through there.

Play the odds, I say.

I know I'll be continuously accused of being an AMF cheerleader by saying this, but has AMF ever HURT anyone's career? At least those that made it through without failure or incidents/accidents? For us young guys, It's always been my opinion that it's a great way to diversify your resume at least. Hell, even if I keep screwing around here for another 2 years, I've got 35 years of 121 time left in me. What's the rush? You do make quite a bit more money in 2 years at AMF vs the regionals. As a mid 20 something, that's either a lot of extra debt to be paid off or quite a bit of extra coin to get invested and growing. I don't know anyone else except for maybe @z987k that's sitting with a better retirement account than myself.

You guys weren't Aguadilla based, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for truly hating the place. It is night and day in comparison. @KLB, TM can attest to that! The other bases, including MIA make me shudder at the thought of working for AMF. DFW was pretty bad. I'd say SJU is almost as bad as CVG. Definitely worse than Dallas. Every time I TDY there, I want to rip all of my brain parts out. For what it's worth, I didn't try all that hard to get to Aguadilla. No one else will have the opportuntity as it stands now unfortunately. We're pretty fat on pilots.

 

[z987k]

I know I'll be continuously accused of being an AMF cheerleader by saying this, but has AMF ever HURT anyone's career? At least those that made it through without failure or incidents/accidents? For us young guys, It's always been my opinion that it's a great way to diversify your resume at least. Hell, even if I keep screwing around here for another 2 years, I've got 35 years of 121 time left in me. What's the rush? You do make quite a bit more money in 2 years at AMF vs the regionals. As a mid 20 something, that's either a lot of extra debt to be paid off or quite a bit of extra coin to get invested and growing. I don't know anyone else except for maybe @z987k that's sitting with a better retirement account than myself.

You guys weren't Aguadilla based, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for truly hating the place. It is night and day in comparison. @KLB, TM can attest to that! The other bases, including MIA make me shudder at the thought of working for AMF. DFW was pretty bad. I'd say SJU is almost as bad as CVG. Definitely worse than Dallas. Every time I TDY there, I want to rip all of my brain parts out. For what it's worth, I didn't try all that hard to get to Aguadilla. No one else will have the opportuntity as it stands now unfortunately. We're pretty fat on pilots.

Max that • bro! Although I have no clue how I'm going to do that in 2014.