American Eagle told to play ball or become Comair-II

Seggy said:
I think at most it took 2.5 years. @Soul Brotha'?

I remember a new hire Comair FO at the Hilton in Boston telling me to quit Colgan as a Beech 1900 Captain so I can be a RJ FO at Comair in the Fall of 2007.
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The clock started slowly in December 2007 with the first reduction of 35 aircraft. The DL/NW merger and losing the Freedom CR9s to Mesaba and ASA was when the clock really stated for the death of Comair. So that was 2009-2010.
 
How do you guys do it? There are good 91 jobs out there. I flew 175 hrs this year, same company for 14 yrs now. I know I am one of the lucky ones but my home field has had the same places and same jobs these last 14 years and they've all turned over, lots of hiring.

Keep hope alive.
 
cezzna said:
How do you guys do it? There are good 91 jobs out there. I flew 175 hrs this year, same company for 14 yrs now. I know I am one of the lucky ones but my home field has had the same places and same jobs these last 14 years and they've all turned over, lots of hiring. Keep hope alive.
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Make sure to post them in the employment area when you hear about them. Some might benefit from it. Thanks.
 
cezzna said:
How do you guys do it? There are good 91 jobs out there. I flew 175 hrs this year, same company for 14 yrs now. I know I am one of the lucky ones but my home field has had the same places and same jobs these last 14 years and they've all turned over, lots of hiring.

Keep hope alive.
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Exactly, you're one of the lucky ones. We had a discussion about this on our private company FB page recently, but the bottom line is that a 14 year Pt 91 gig is a pretty rare thing. On other boards I've seen plenty of guys have a lot less luck in that market.

Different strokes for different folks and all that, but the 121 field is poised to have a pretty good run over the next few decades, so long as one can successfully navigate it's lower rungs.
 
cezzna said:
How do you guys do it? There are good 91 jobs out there. I flew 175 hrs this year, same company for 14 yrs now. I know I am one of the lucky ones but my home field has had the same places and same jobs these last 14 years and they've all turned over, lots of hiring.

Keep hope alive.
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That is true but there are fewer "career" part 91 jobs out there than major jobs, by a wide margin.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: The best jobs in aviation are part 91 jobs, the worst jobs in aviation are also part 91 jobs.
 
High stakes poker game this is indeed. I think management is bluffing. If they want to give 500 pilot group PSA 90 airplanes worth I growth I would love to see them try.

Between the concessions management is proposing industry wide and the almost dry supply of qualified pilots, something will have to give. Popcorn in hand
 
Seggy, our existing contract language that was awarded from arbitration is much better than what USAir is proposing. USAir is trying to trick the uninformed. Also, there is a grievance filed because the company (AA/AE) is ignoring this flow through agreement by metering less than the arbitrator awarded to us with the 824 group. Do you think USAir would honor that proposal if AA Mgmt is already ignoring our contract?
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4. In the event that Eagle is employing surplus pilots due to the furlough protection

provided as described in either paragraph 1. or 2. above, AA will increase the

percent of training slots in AA new hire classes available to Eagle pilots as

follows:

a. Should the surplus occur when the pilots in the “824” group are entering

AA new hire training, AA will offer a minimum of 60% of the new hire

training slots to Eagle pilots under the 824 Nicolau award (FLO-0108).

b. Should the surplus occur when the Protected Pilots are entering AA new

hire training, AA will offer a minimum of 50% of the new hire training slots

to Eagle pilots under the Protected Pilot LOA.

c. Should the surplus in paragraphs 1 and 2 above occur, then American

Eagle will not meter (withhold) the number of pilots (“824” or Protected

Pilots) eligible to enter new hire training at American Airlines, except that,

in the event the number of American Eagle pilots eligible to enter new hire

training at AA in any particular month could cause the company to be

unable to perform the flight schedule for which it is contracted, then

1) American Eagle will increase its training capacity to the extent reasonable to expedite the movement of pilots to AA, and

2) In the event that there are any “withheld” pilots at American Eagle at the time of the Amendment Round and the Company is eligible to and elects to take Longevity as one of its five items for interest arbitration, then the calculation will be performed as if those “withheld” pilots were no longer employed at Eagle and Eagle hired new hire pilot(s) to fill their vacant position(s) at the time they were withheld.
 
I'm not a regional pilot; won't pretend that I understand everything about these shenanigans, but as someone that could work for one some day, I feel I have a right to speak my mind too:
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To all the AE guys out there reading this, we RAH pilots have your back. We're in contract negotiations also and the rumor is AMR is pushing our management to sneak a crappy 2% improvement-over-what-we-have-now last best and final offer contract by to undermine you guys... I'm voting hell no.

I for one have a certain set of standards that must be met (which is pretty much on par or better than what you guys have now). I can't speak for all of us, but pretty much everyone I've talked too is behind you guys. After 6 years of negotiations we're much older and sick and tired of this excrement, get more flying lose, more flying... who cares? no more undermining and pay cuts.

Call they're bluff and pay to the last day.

Rant over.
 
Hmm there's not been an US Air for sometime. Plus American is offering this deal. There's no longer an US Airways. ;)
 
HVYMETALDRVR said:
To all the AE guys out there reading this, we RAH pilots have your back. We're in contract negotiations also and the rumor is AMR is pushing our management to sneak a crappy 2% improvement-over-what-we-have-now last best and final offer contract by to undermine you guys... I'm voting hell no.

I for one have a certain set of standards that must be met (which is pretty much on par or better than what you guys have now). I can't speak for all of us, but pretty much everyone I've talked too is behind you guys. After 6 years of negotiations we're much older and sick and tired of this excrement, get more flying lose, more flying... who cares? no more undermining and pay cuts.

Call they're bluff and pay to the last day.

Rant over.
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Not trying to be a cynic here. But you probably shouldn't be so eager to believe all the rabble rousers of your co-workers. Human beings are inherently cowards, by an large.
We're social creatures that crave being part of a hive mind/group. It is a strength and also a draw back. We as humans also greatly fear ostracism, dissent and all that we don't understand.

I tell you this because as has been said so often here, people in crew rooms and on the net come contract time are all holy warriors full of righteous indignation, ready to burn the place down. But then the TA passes by a large margin and no one can ever admit to voting yes. But yet... it passed some how. Shocker.

You seem to have a lot of (misplaced) faith in your co-workers, that IMO you probably shouldn't. You'll probably be let down in this industry, and your co-workers more especially on your current level. No regional has another regional's back, in truth and solidarity. But the different groups/factions always seem to at least on the net or in the crew rooms. It's dog eat dog in the regional feed world and pilots are mostly, or can mostly be type-A's only looking out for themselves. Well, as a whole the same can be said about people in general. Not just pilots. Sad, but so true.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you have too much faith in humanity, and especially your co-workers and your specific segment of the industry. And you're maybe setting your self up for major disappointment.
 
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Man this totally sucks. I feel bad for the Regional drivers out there. Nothing has changed in the last decade. They were doing this crap with the original Shuttle, CHQ and RP. How ever works for less can get the planes... It's a no win for anyone expect the executives...
 
Those of us at AE or XJT can decide to let this pass (which can lead to more concessions asked at a later date) or say NO for the betterment of those that are in this industry now and those who will come after. I believe it is easier to vote yes than it is to vote NO with these proposals because as Max says that we are inherently looking out for ourselves. With a NO vote, not only are you stating that you are not only looking out for yourself in this case (read: no more concessions) but you are also looking at what effects this might have on the future of our careers and the new generation to follow.
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
Not trying to be a cynic here. But you probably shouldn't be so eager to believe all the rabble rousers of your co-workers. Human beings are inherently cowards, by an large.
We're social creatures that crave being part of a hive mind/group. It is a strength and also a draw back. We as humans also greatly fear ostracism, dissent and all that we don't understand.

I tell you this because as has been said so often here, people in crew rooms and on the net come contract time are all holy warriors full of righteous indignation, ready to burn the place down. But then the TA passes by a large margin and no one can ever admit to voting yes. But yet... it passed some how. Shocker.

You seem to have a lot of (misplaced) faith in your co-workers, that IMO you probably shouldn't. You'll probably be let down in this industry, and your co-workers more especially on your current level. No regional has another regional's back, in truth and solidarity. But the different groups/factions always seem to at least on the net or in the crew rooms. It's dog eat dog in the regional feed world and pilots are mostly, or can mostly be type-A's only looking out for themselves. Well, as a whole the same can be said about people in general. Not just pilots. Sad, but so true.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you have too much faith in humanity, and especially your co-workers and your specific segment of the industry. And you're maybe setting your self up for major disappointment.
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Do you work at RAH? People are pretty bitter here.

Don't get me wrong, we have our share of cowards and selfish jerks, but 6 years of negotiations have forged a pretty pissed off group of people. There's a lot to be said about our contract negotiations that I won't bore you with on here. But, our management is slowly realizing that they screwed up and should have offered us a weaker contract 3-4 years ago when there was an overage of pilots and the economy was in the the toilet. Before, when we were furloughing and losing flying they could have slid a crappy TA by easily. The "we'll get more flying and you get a 2% pay increase" carrot would have worked because of the fear of being furloughed with nowhere to go. Now it seems we can't compete with SkyW or Horizon without a decent contract. Desperation has slowly given away to anger, and most are just quitting to the tune of between 15-25 leaving per month. This is apparent since, our staffing right now is about 58% CA's and about 42% FO's; hanging the hourly pay increase in front of new FO's for a year 1-3 pay raise won't garner as many votes as when the ratio was closer to 50/50 since there's just not enough new hires to sucker into voting yes. Plus (and I almost forgot) we already fly 170's anyways, so the "sexy new mini 737" argument is a moot point.

This is my viewpoint of why a "PSA-esque TA" won't pass, probably by a margin of 63/37 or so. If I'm wrong, I'll come on this thread and apologize and admit it.

The reason I bring RAH into this is because after being "shelved" all summer we've started negotiations again with a private mediator at the company's expense. Word is, AMR Corp pushed this to get another pilot group in-line to whipsaw against AE without risk of a strike.
 
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I don't work in aviation all together. But I'm getting my degree in psychology/nursing. And I work in the mental health field. I've taken extensive social psychology and a behavioral psychology classes. These things in no way make me an expert, but I do work closely with people everyday. I observe behaviors and patterns every day. People don't change. We're selfish, prideful creatures as a whole that love power/control and we are only ever concerned with number one. In this life there will always be two things. Victims and victors. The true power to humanity as a species is only when we unite as a whole for the greater good. When we come together for one galvanizing event we are truly unstoppable, but then afterwards we always disband and fall back into the old familiar patterns of destruction. We as a species are doomed and will never learn from our mistakes, we throughout our brief history continue to make the same mistakes over and over.

Can people as a whole unite to defeat oppression yes. Anything is possible. Can your pilot group do it, maybe? But I do not hold out much faith, either in them or humanity as a whole. More especially when most every major and LCC is hiring, or will soon be. It's going to be all about "F' you, I'm getting mine!"

The though process I'd assume is going to be screw it, who cares. Get those new jets here, get some bodies under me. Raise that seniority number. Upgrade, get that PIC and apply to Delta, Emirates or United/Continental et. al. as fast as possible. Even if that means screwing over their whole group. The AE group or the whole segment of their industry. I'd like to be wrong. But I don't really think that I will be. But I'd at least hope to be.
 
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