American Eagle told to play ball or become Comair-II

[scooter2525]

I haven't voted "yes" on a CBA since 2000 — even when it was going to be absolute armageddon if we didn't sign it.

This will not satisfy the need to AMR to treat Eagle like it's 2002. Other airlines will see the cost "savings" and then the crap will both roll up and down hill.

They're making these demands because the last group that took a big bite of the crap sandwich thought they had no leverage either.

Stand up for yourself.

Tacos. That's your carrot.

 

[surreal1221]

Well this proposed agreement seems to potentially allow for that....

Oh...uh huh...

Eagle pilots, you see your future is just right around the corner. Seggy has laid it out for you again, tell your Reps to support this latest "offer."

 

[Screaming_Emu]

Really nice of this to happen around the holiday. I hate people.

 

[mshunter]

There is two (three) of us as far as I know going through negotiations right now. This is the chance we have to undo some of the damage done by those who were previously there before us, and voted in absolute (redacted) contracts. Mainline makes record profits, but we have to take concessions? Explain that to me, please! We should be going back to them and DEMANDING more.

Management takes bonuses, and raises, but we take cuts and concessions? F THAT!

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

Jesus.

What an absolute show this industry is becoming.

Get out, get out now.

As an aside.

I'm a really extra friendly at work when I find out a person on a 5150 hold (72 hour psychiatric evaluation) is a pilot.

Don't let it mess with your sanity people!

 

[roundout]

What leverage is that again? I'm sorry, but the regional pilots will never have any leverage when a management group can count on alter-ego's and low-cost competitors to take whatever terms they suggest. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone particular, I just don't think it's realistic to say we have leverage.

News flash: Gutierrez and ryter are gone.The days of "let's all get along" and "trust us, we know what's best" are gone. Quit toeing the company line. We do have leverage.

 

[chrisreedrules]

And the race to the bottom continues... That's bummer news and I don't even fly 121. Good luck Eagle guys, and don't let this ruin your holidays.

 

[jtrain609]

Here's the deal ya'll: if XJT votes in their contract, and Eagle votes this down (at the MEC or pilot group level), then Eagle is going to get spun down and XJT will get the airplanes.

If XJT votes down their contract, and Eagle takes this, then XJT gets spun down over the next few years (straight from the mouth of the CEO, and his cute infographics).

We all said that the regionals needed to disappear.

Here's our chance.

SOMEBODY is going to go down, but I doubt many folks considered that it might be their company that takes the hit.

 

[chrisreedrules]

Here's the deal ya'll: if XJT votes in their contract, and Eagle votes this down (at the MEC or pilot group level), then Eagle is going to get spun down and XJT will get the airplanes.

If XJT votes down their contract, and Eagle takes this, then XJT gets spun down over the next few years (straight from the mouth of the CEO, and his cute infographics).

We all said that the regionals needed to disappear.

Here's our chance.

SOMEBODY is going to go down, but I doubt many folks considered that it might be their company that takes the hit.

So lose lose?

 

[ChasenSFO]

Here's the deal ya'll: if XJT votes in their contract, and Eagle votes this down (at the MEC or pilot group level), then Eagle is going to get spun down and XJT will get the airplanes.

If XJT votes down their contract, and Eagle takes this, then XJT gets spun down over the next few years (straight from the mouth of the CEO, and his cute infographics).

We all said that the regionals needed to disappear.

Here's our chance.

SOMEBODY is going to go down, but I doubt many folks considered that it might be their company that takes the hit.

What if they both vote it down?

 

[jtrain609]

So lose lose?

If there's one thing I've learned so far, it's that nobody wins but management.

 

[jtrain609]

What if they both vote it down?

Spin them both down, send the planes to PSA.

 

[Seggy]

Oh...uh huh...

Eagle pilots, you see your future is just right around the corner. Seggy has laid it out for you again, tell your Reps to support this latest "offer."

Now wait a second.

First, I really feel sorry the Eagle Pilots (along with your group are in).

Secondly, I COMPLETELY agree with you. Folks need to get out of the regionals ASAP.

However, with that said, this is an awfully big game of poker. I really don't think Doug Parker is bluffing when he says they will be Comair II.

Fourthly, if the Eagle Pilots say 'no' and Doug Parker sticks to his word here, then where does that leave the Eagle Pilots? Yes, some will get on at other places and 'get out', but others will be starting over from step one. They will be going to job fairs with hundreds of other pilots, looking to get the better jobs, but, unfortunately, most of them are going to end up at other regionals. Sooooooooo, is voting this turd down really speeding up the 'get out now process'? Or is that hurting the 'get out now process' and we have guys go back to square one at a new company with lower rates/worse contract they would have had if they voted this turd in?

 

[Nick]

Now wait a second.

First, I really feel sorry the Eagle Pilots (along with your group are in).

Secondly, I COMPLETELY agree with you. Folks need to get out of the regionals ASAP.

However, with that said, this is an awfully big game of poker. I really don't think Doug Parker is bluffing when he says they will be Comair II.

Fourthly, if the Eagle Pilots say 'no' and Doug Parker sticks to his word here, then where does that leave the Eagle Pilots? Yes, some will get on at other places and 'get out', but others will be starting over from step one. They will be going to job fairs with hundreds of other pilots, looking to get the better jobs, but, unfortunately, most of them are going to end up at other regionals. Sooooooooo, is voting this turd down really speeding up the 'get out now process'? Or is that hurting the 'get out now process' and we have guys go back to square one at a new company with lower rates/worse contract they would have had if they voted this turd in?

He may not be bluffing, however this concession may also have nothing to do with it.

In other words...if Comair had taken similar concessions, would they still be around? Not a snowball's chance in Bakersfield.

 

[ChasenSFO]

Spin them both down, send the planes to PSA.

Ugh. See, this is the whole reason I refuse to put all my eggs in one basket for 121 flying. Most of us got into flying for the same reasons, and no matter what the size 14 font says under the words "United Express" or "Delta Connection", guys at the regionals are doing the same job with mostly the same end goals in mind. If only that would idea would carry into unity between pilots, and they could count on each other to tell management to get lost when these contracts come around, the world would be a better place. But it looks like that is a pipe dream, everybody wants theirs and pilots at the other carriers be damned. I feel like 20 years from now, the bottom feeder regionals will still be around with nonsense like 4 year F/O pay caps, and the good places to work today will be nothing more than examples used in frustrated conversations about days gone by. Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but at this point it all seems very discouraging.

 

[jtrain609]

Ugh. See, this is the whole reason I refuse to put all my eggs in one basket for 121 flying. Most of us got into flying for the same reasons, and no matter what the size 14 font says under the words "United Express" or "Delta Connection", guys at the regionals are doing the same job with mostly the same end goals in mind. If only that would idea would carry into unity between pilots, and they could count on each other to tell management to get lost when these contracts came around, the world would be a better place. But it looks like that is a pipe dream, everybody wants theirs and pilots at the other carriers be damned. I feel like 20 years from now, the bottom feeder regionals will still be around with nonsense like 4 year F/O pay caps, and the good places to work today will be nothing more than examples used in frustrated conversations about days gone by. Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but at this point it all seems very discouraging.

You're not wrong.

But if you don't get in and play the game to try to move on, it's impossible to win.

I've made my decision to stay off the sidelines, and it's been both good and bad. But if I was still at Amflight, I'd be FURTHER from my end goals.

 

[Seggy]

He may not be bluffing, however this concession may also have nothing to do with it.

In other words...if Comair had taken similar concessions, would they still be around? Not a snowball's chance in Bakersfield.

True, but the lower bar has already been set by Endeavor. Companies want to use them as the new benchmark. Is this Eagle deal WORSE than Endeavor's? I don't know.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

There is no winning at the regional level. It is all outsourced work and the cheapest bidder will get the work. The recent downward spiral had the stage set up with 9E's "bankruptcy" and PSA pilots followed in a concessionary contracts for jets and movement to mainline in exchange for 12/4 yr caps. The rest of the regionals will have to follow suit in order to remain competitive or risk lose flying to the regionals that can do it cheaper. It's nothing personal it's just business.

 

[Seggy]

Ugh. See, this is the whole reason I refuse to put all my eggs in one basket for 121 flying. Most of us got into flying for the same reasons, and no matter what the size 14 font says under the words "United Express" or "Delta Connection", guys at the regionals are doing the same job with mostly the same end goals in mind. If only that would idea would carry into unity between pilots, and they could count on each other to tell management to get lost when these contracts came around, the world would be a better place. But it looks like that is a pipe dream, everybody wants theirs and pilots at the other carriers be damned. I feel like 20 years from now, the bottom feeder regionals will still be around with nonsense like 4 year F/O pay caps, and the good places to work today will be nothing more than examples used in frustrated conversations about days gone by. Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but at this point it all seems very discouraging.

What @jtrain609 said.

I would still recommend this career to anyone.

 

[Seggy]

There is no winning at the regional level. It is all outsourced work and the cheapest bidder will get the work. The recent downward spiral had the stage set up with 9E's "bankruptcy" and PSA pilots followed in a concessionary contracts for jets and movement to mainline in exchange for 12/4 yr caps. The rest of the regionals will have to follow suit in order to remain competitive or risk lose flying to the regionals that can do it cheaper. It's nothing personal it's just business.

Wow, I actually agree with you.

Sucks that it is this way, but the laws are set up against labor.