Well that was quick...... Well done....
Jsut watched the Happy Festivus episode last night..... And now it is time for the feats of strength....
American Eagle told to play ball or become Comair-II
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Well that was quick...... Well done....
Jsut watched the Happy Festivus episode last night..... And now it is time for the feats of strength....
scooter2525
Very well Member
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
Yeah, sure. Automatic flow rights. Sure. And 1900 other people in front of me. Assuming AA takes 50 a month continuously, that's a minimum of three years. And they've said they're going to meter because they can't seem to replace the losses at Eagle.
That's the truly annoying part of it all- they could totally just syphon off the top of the list indefinitely- and would have an endless supply of new FOs if they'd just bump the low end of the pay scale (here and AA) a little.
That's the funny thing- they could have low longevity almost overnight at Eagle if they did that. Costs would lower by default.
... but If they slash wages as much as they what right now- what's the incentive? And pilots pay the price all around in the meantime.
Trip7
Well-Known Member
With the significant hiring going on industry wide that 1900 will shrink quicker than you think. Worse case, if Eagle shuts down and everybody is furloughed, do all furloughees still hold flow to AA?
If so, Eagle pilots are in a better position than XJT. You have something guaranteed. They are telling XJT that if the TA is voted down XJT will wind down over the next several years. And if the TA is voted in XJT "might" survive.
Anyhow IMO it's nothing to get worked up about. The future looks bright for all current 121 pilots as everyday more opportunities arise.
Heck an FO that left ASA 2.5 years ago for Spirit just upgraded
FLY...NETWORK...GROW...ENJOY
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Seggy
Well-Known Member
Polar742
All the responsibility none of the authority
There is a very underutilized committee for ALPA carriers called CIRP.
During times like the Eagle pilots are more facing, when the pressure is extremely high on your personal lives due to the uncertainty right now, they offer a hand.
If you, or if you think one of your friends, need help dealing with the stress, please reach out. Get help early.
During times like the Eagle pilots are more facing, when the pressure is extremely high on your personal lives due to the uncertainty right now, they offer a hand.
If you, or if you think one of your friends, need help dealing with the stress, please reach out. Get help early.
HVYMETALDRVR
Well-Known Member
Yawn, I've been with family for the holidays.
I pretty much brushed you off as soon as you said your not flying for an airline. Just because you sit in a classroom and listen to a prof spout off about human nature doesn't make you an expert in the field. The United States Army was the best teacher of human psych I've ever had, I learned more there than in any classroom. And I do hold a Bachelors degree...
But, if you read my posts I never denied the backstabbing nature of pilots. I'm just posting our support for Eagle. We have a very strong "groupthink" here about what we want in a contract. We've already picked up a lot of flying from AE, not by our choice. The truth is that AMR management can give us more flying from AE regardless of our contract or the attitude of our pilots. My original post was to show our support for guys like Firebird and that we're not going to falter either.
Since your in college I suggest you educate yourself about the Railway Labor Act and it's amendments. I cant stress this enough because the due process for negotiations is designed to circumvent a lot of selfishness that I agree does exist. Even if we had a wishy washy pilot group our NC has prevented us from voting on any substandard TA's for the last 6 years. And our management has tried...
Merry Christmas.
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Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
If we furlough, we increase our class sizes at AA. Theoretically. It is widely regarded that we work for Satan and now that Lorenzo 2.0 is at the helm, I expect no better.
And we're in no better position than XJT- management LITERALLY said if we don't take the deal as written for new jets they will make us 'Comair 2'. They have literally said "do what we want or we will take everything you have."
That's just a hair short of terrorism. NOW do you get why I'm so mad? I refuse to capitulate and refuse to tolerate anyone who whimpers and rolls over.
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Gonzo
Well-Known Member
Stop taking it so personally and realize what we are, a service company for a mainline airline. Do you price shop? That is all the new AA is doing. Sorry to break it down to the lowest level but that is the truth about what we are and our new management doesn't care about anything but cost. We are the State Farm in a sea of Geico's. Are we better, yes. But all they care about is cost.
rockman2343@aol.com
Well-Known Member
It sounds as if the railway act allows companies drag out negotiations, and prevents pilot groups from striking in a reasonable amount of time.
"Do what we want or we'll shut the company down?" Of course management will say that because they'll make a bunch of money while if closes and then go start another • regional.
There are to many of us willing to put up with this stuff and they know it. The hiring looks good now, but wait till the music stops. In 2001 15% of all flying was done by the regionals, today it's over 50%. So when the majors fill their seats again or should they downsize ever, half of the pilot group is going to be stuck at the regionals.
The only way to stop it is less supply of pilots. But as I've said before, as ATP is opening up new flight schools, I don't see a huge shortage. They have to work a little harder right now, but most regionals are still running classes.
"Do what we want or we'll shut the company down?" Of course management will say that because they'll make a bunch of money while if closes and then go start another • regional.
There are to many of us willing to put up with this stuff and they know it. The hiring looks good now, but wait till the music stops. In 2001 15% of all flying was done by the regionals, today it's over 50%. So when the majors fill their seats again or should they downsize ever, half of the pilot group is going to be stuck at the regionals.
The only way to stop it is less supply of pilots. But as I've said before, as ATP is opening up new flight schools, I don't see a huge shortage. They have to work a little harder right now, but most regionals are still running classes.
Screaming_Emu
Well-Known Member
Yup.
I'm one of 11,000. It's like farting in the crowd at Times Square before the ball drops. You only really piss off those closest to you and the other people don't even notice or care.
Nick
Well-Known Member
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
... is there any other way to take it? We might just be a large moving part to the overloads that want a cheaper one, but on a macro, individual level, it's very personal for all of us.
At the end of the day, the view that this is just a matter of cost and not people is the defining problem in all of airline issues. I'm surprised to hear you of all people say that this is anything but a personal matter.
It's not personal, it's business.
You're upset, and understandably so, but the powers-that-be do not care.
You have to survive this and if you stroke out before the end, well, they will hire another FO to replace you.
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
Hee hee, you said 'stroke out'. I'm not worried about surviving the issue. I'm worried about thriving through the issue- and I'm not gonna sit here and wait while fearmongers vote in concessions.
It's more than just cost- it's politics... and our Dear Leaders have made a business out of selling us out.
You really think I'm just raving about nothing for no reason? Feast your eyes on this:
http://www.collaborativelabor.com/
EDIT: For those who are unawares, that's our former MEC Chair, Vice Chair, and Chair of the Negotiating Committee. Gee...
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Gonzo
Well-Known Member
When you remove yourself from the situation you realize it isn't personal. This is life in the game known as Fee for Departure were cost is everything. Does your insurance agent take it personally it you go with a cheaper insurance company? My guess is he wouldn't.
The older I get, less I take things personally and the less I worry about things I can't control.
Go to work-Fly-Go home-Have Fun
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
No, my insurance agent magically forgets to mail checks I'm due for compensation after my car accident, then says they're waiting on paperwork for the lost wages claim that I included in the application- at their request- until I called and yelled at the shmuck.
Airline managers and their collaborators operate the same way. When they don't give you what you're due, you apply pressure. By any means necessary. Pilots back in the day made their money because when management stiffed them they raised hell when they needed to- or went on strike and literally 'STFD'. Pilots are way too calm and measured about this- which is just another way to say 'complacent and docile'.
You want what's yours? You have to stand up for it.
You do realize that they want to cap FO pay at step 4, right? How does Fly, Go Home, Have Fun, work when you're knocked back a few pay steps on a scale that is already more or less universally agreed upon to be too damned little?
Gonzo
Well-Known Member
And if we owned any flying I would agree with you, but we don't.
I will not be that upset if they kill Eagle, I will not vote yes on any give backs 1) I really don't want to work for AA so a flow is meaningless and 2) 45K isn't hard to replace outside of the go-cart place I worked when I was 18 every job I have had paid more including selling cell phones part time, yup a part time job paid better than being a FO at Eagle at max pay and my insurance was $2.00 a month for a better plan than I have now.