American Eagle Stuck mic

An instructor was teaching spin recovery (prohibited according to the syllabus) to his primary student in a Tomahawk (not spin-rated) after departing the Class D. The anxious student death-gripped the yoke and keyed the mic on tower freq for about 10 minutes while they went round & round, with the student crying like a little school girl.
 
tomokc said:
An instructor was teaching spin recovery (prohibited according to the syllabus) to his primary student in a Tomahawk (not spin-rated) after departing the Class D. The anxious student death-gripped the yoke and keyed the mic on tower freq for about 10 minutes while they went round & round, with the student crying like a little school girl.
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Spin recovery? In a Tomahawk? Id be crying too.
 
Derg said:
They don't call it a TraumaHawk for nothing!

<--- Survived N2455C
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I have a few hours in these POS. First airplane I ever flew. It smelled like a combo of piss, gas, bananas, old oil and the engine sounded like it was brewing coffee.
 
N519AT said:
It's the Internet I know but I'd like the US to adopt a similar policy to the UK in regards to scanners.
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Strongly disagree. Just watch what you say. LiveATC has been around for over a decade, how many pilots have lost their cert over something uploaded as a LiveATC clip that wouldn't have otherwise? I don't buy it. People should be more then welcome to listen in if they're supposed to entrust their lives to the strangers who use that frequency.

Screaming_Emu said:
Another thing to keep in mind when talking in the flight deck is the CVR. Yeah, the chances are slim, but if you ball it up and people have to listen to your last words, your family will already be rather distraught, don't say anything that'll make it worse.
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If I'm ever about to bite the dust in a jet with a CVR:

"Gary Coleman?! STOP! GET OUT OF THE COCKPIT! LET GO! Garry STOP! GET OUT OF THE-".
 
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I believe ATC transmissions are available under the Freedom of Information Act anyway so arguing about the downfall of LiveATC is a exercise in futility.

Assume you always have a hot mike and the whole world hears what you are saying all the time.


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ChasenSFO said:
Strongly disagree. Just watch what you say. LiveATC has been around for over a decade, how many pilots have lost their cert over something uploaded as a LiveATC clip that wouldn't have otherwise? I don't buy it. People should be more then welcome to listen in if they're supposed to entrust their lives to the strangers who use that frequency..
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I guess I stand alone here, but no one knows what was going inside the cockpit besides the two individuals. Assuming it was the CA talking, maybe the FO was on IOE? Or maybe it was the FO's first time to BWI? Maybe the CA was giving a tip - "hey, I know it's your first time out here but watch out for these controllers as they will fly you right into the ground.." Maybe he had a bad experience with Potamac? Maybe on more than one occasion? He had no intention of broadcasting it, but due to an equipment malfunction, it did. Because of the Live ATC clip, we all know all about it now. I don't think that these guys are dumbasses either. In my airplane, the radios are on the center pedestal and the "TX" light is about 1MM tall and very difficult to see, especially if the sun is shining on that particular radio head. Because it's on the pedestal, it requires you to look down and turn your head 90 degrees. I'm not going to sit there and stare at the radio while I'm talking for fear of a stuck mic when I should be watching the panel right in front of my face. I get it - watch what you say, but it's easy to get complacent. Having a bad day, dealing with weather, broken airplanes, airplane swaps, etc. You're going to vent, especially when it's in the heat of the moment. Especially to someone who's in the same mess that you are/were in. I'd challenge someone to find a CVR transcript without *expletive deleted* in the text. "Watch what you say" is easier said than done.

The fact is that the fact's aren't known, and the thing is is that more often than not these clips/videos result in carpet dances with the company and/or the FAA. Look at the tower controller at JFK that let his kid give takeoff clearances. That made national news thanks to LiveATC, and the controller was suspended (possibly fired?). The JFK guy that lost it on the frequency a few years ago with the Air China pilots - he was involuntarily transferred. I just don't like the fact that a slip of the tongue can screw with your livelihood.These AE guys most likely got a tongue lashing from the SUP on duty that day, and were told "don't let it happen again." That was that. They learned their lesson, the company most likely would have never found out but now with this youtube clip, they're probably going to have to do a carpet dance in the CP's office. Who knows what disciplinary action will be taken.

The other reason I don't care for LiveATC is the fact that the instant an incident occurs, people go straight to the feed - including the media. The Colgan 3407 ATC tape was playing on Fox News/CNN/MSNBC a few hours after the crash happened. The media takes this crap and runs with it. When the Southwest guy had his stuck mic a few years back, the media was on the guy's front lawn in Texas. They were filming into his windows and showing video of his Air Force medals. Absolutely ridiculous.

I realize that this is more of a rant than anything, because LiveATC won't be shutdown nor will scanner broadcasting live feeds to the internet go away in the US, however it needs to be understood that these guys are HUMAN and they made a MISTAKE. The people that put these clips up need to think twice before they upload because they could be the sole reason that someone loses their job.

Seggy said:
I believe ATC transmissions are available under the Freedom of Information Act anyway so arguing about the downfall of LiveATC is a exercise in futility.

Assume you always have a hot mike and the whole world hears what you are saying all the time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
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They are available via FOIA, however unless it's super juicy I'd doubt anyone would go the process for something as simple as this. It's simply not worth the time.
 
N519AT said:
I guess I stand alone here, but no one knows what was going inside the cockpit besides the two individuals. Assuming it was the CA talking, maybe the FO was on IOE? Or maybe it was the FO's first time to BWI? Maybe the CA was giving a tip - "hey, I know it's your first time out here but watch out for these controllers as they will fly you right into the ground.." Maybe he had a bad experience with Potamac? Maybe on more than one occasion? He had no intention of broadcasting it, but due to an equipment malfunction, it did. Because of the Live ATC clip, we all know all about it now. I don't think that these guys are dumbasses either. In my airplane, the radios are on the center pedestal and the "TX" light is about 1MM tall and very difficult to see, especially if the sun is shining on that particular radio head. Because it's on the pedestal, it requires you to look down and turn your head 90 degrees. I'm not going to sit there and stare at the radio while I'm talking for fear of a stuck mic when I should be watching the panel right in front of my face. I get it - watch what you say, but it's easy to get complacent. Having a bad day, dealing with weather, broken airplanes, airplane swaps, etc. You're going to vent, especially when it's in the heat of the moment. Especially to someone who's in the same mess that you are/were in. I'd challenge someone to find a CVR transcript without *expletive deleted* in the text. "Watch what you say" is easier said than done.

The fact is that the fact's aren't known, and the thing is is that more often than not these clips/videos result in carpet dances with the company and/or the FAA. Look at the tower controller at JFK that let his kid give takeoff clearances. That made national news thanks to LiveATC, and the controller was suspended (possibly fired?). The JFK guy that lost it on the frequency a few years ago with the Air China pilots - he was involuntarily transferred. I just don't like the fact that a slip of the tongue can screw with your livelihood.These AE guys most likely got a tongue lashing from the SUP on duty that day, and were told "don't let it happen again." That was that. They learned their lesson, the company most likely would have never found out but now with this youtube clip, they're probably going to have to do a carpet dance in the CP's office. Who knows what disciplinary action will be taken.

The other reason I don't care for LiveATC is the fact that the instant an incident occurs, people go straight to the feed - including the media. The Colgan 3407 ATC tape was playing on Fox News/CNN/MSNBC a few hours after the crash happened. The media takes this crap and runs with it. When the Southwest guy had his stuck mic a few years back, the media was on the guy's front lawn in Texas. They were filming into his windows and showing video of his Air Force medals. Absolutely ridiculous.

I realize that this is more of a rant than anything, because LiveATC won't be shutdown nor will scanner broadcasting live feeds to the internet go away in the US, however it needs to be understood that these guys are HUMAN and they made a MISTAKE. The people that put these clips up need to think twice before they upload because they could be the sole reason that someone loses their job.



They are available via FOIA, however unless it's super juicy I'd doubt anyone would go the process for something as simple as this. It's simply not worth the time.
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I think the point is he could have conveyed his message more tactfully to the other pilot.
 
Everyone has their own opinion. I talk on both sides of the radio and I have no problem with people downloading my calls. That's life now. While we don't have a liveatc feed to our ramp tower, the FAA tower does randomly monitor our frequency. If I lean on the mic and start talking crap about how the fed's are flowing traffic into my alley, and they hear me, I'd expect to have to own up to it. If someone had recorded and shared it, I'd laugh. If I lost my job, I'd have to blame myself. The world has changed, you just have to be more careful now.

I also have no problem with accident audio being uploaded right after a crash, its publicly accessible anyway and it's not the same thing as posting a CVR recording. Very, very rarely is the last transmission of a fatal accident anything more than a routine call or sometimes a mayday anyway. Looking back, I remember Alaska 261 audio was up the night of the crash and this was in 2000. The media would get a hold of the audio one way or another.

I've talked with the guy who founded LiveATC.net and he gave me permission to play around with some of his stuff and logos for the aviation website I've been building. He's a cool guy and I'm sure he intends his services to be used by enthusiasts and doesn't enjoy seeing pilots get hung up to dry.

I understand the other side of the topic, and I am sympathetic to it, but we all know we just have to cover our asses(you can totally say the plural form of ass on here) a little better these days.
 
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If you listen to a particular airline's ramp or 'special assist' frequency in JFK anytime from 1500 to 1800, you're probably going to hear facepalm-worthy tasty nuggs for hours.
 
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