ALPA: It's Time for Regionals To Raise Pay

HVYMETALDRVR said:
Significantly? Well it depends your reference for money (2 bucks extra an hour is probably a lot to someone making that much), but Mesa is on the lower end of the scale when you compare similar Regionals like Mesa, RAH, PSA, Envoy, TSA, Compass, XJ, SKW, Horizon, etc.

But again, I wasn't attacking them or ALPA. I was just pointing out that they're on the lower end of the pay and work rules spectrum and can staff better than anyone else. While ALPA's goals in this situation are admirable they just don't have any leverage in this situation, so I wouldn't be holding my breath for any kind of improvements.

Especially when the CEO of Mesa purportedly said, (paraphrasing), "if I can fill new hire classes, then my starting paying is too much!"
Click to expand...
"As long as I have resumes on my desk, first year pay is adequate."

(Economics are a beeyotch.)
 
BobDDuck said:
For one, you are confusing an LOA with a CBA.

Secondly, what are you listing as "concessions"? Personally, I get paid in W2s, not "payrates", so no... there were no concessions.
Click to expand...

I cat find my notes I took, sorry. What I do remember is listening to one of the guys tell me about it, reading it to me, and saying "WHAT! THEY CAN DO THAT?!?!"
 
Autothrust Blue said:
"As long as I have resumes on my desk, first year pay is adequate."

(Economics are a beeyotch.)
Click to expand...

This is almost exactly what was said in my new hire ground school during indoc. I, and others were very pissed off by the attitude.

An Asst. CP came in to talk to us, when somebody asked about pay raises, he stopped, looked around the room and said "Well this room is pretty full now isn't it? I don't see any reason here to raise pay."

It's attitudes like that which prevent me from having an ounce of compassion for any of these regionals, even the one I work for. I'm getting some great experience, but the moment I can move on to greener pastures I'm out.
 
Mark815 said:
This is almost exactly what was said in my new hire ground school during indoc. I, and others were very pissed off by the attitude.

An Asst. CP came in to talk to us, when somebody asked about pay raises, he stopped, looked around the room and said "Well this room is pretty full now isn't it? I don't see any reason here to raise pay."

It's attitudes like that which prevent me from having an ounce of compassion for any of these regionals, even the one I work for. I'm getting some great experience, but the moment I can move on to greener pastures I'm out.
Click to expand...
Ain't personal, it's business.

Remember that.
 
HVYMETALDRVR said:
Sorry guys, but this is just a pipe dream as long as Mesa and PSA are still filling classes.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Pilot shortage? Ill believe it once ATP starts closing some flight schools and Great Lakes goes out of business's for lack of crews. Unfortunately, the money men understand that if they sell us the dream of working at a major airline, we are going to undercut each other in order to get the time needed to get there. And there are plenty of applicants out there, willing to take these regional, and other entry level jobs, for less.
 
rockman2343@aol.com said:
Exactly. Pilot shortage? Ill believe it once ATP starts closing some flight schools and Great Lakes goes out of business's for lack of crews. Unfortunately, the money men understand that if they sell us the dream of working at a major airline, we are going to undercut each other in order to get the time needed to get there. And there are plenty of applicants out there, willing to take these regional, and other entry level jobs, for less.
Click to expand...
Erm, well, we're doing a great job of perpetuating that ourselves, we don't even need The Man's help.

"GET YOUR (neither magical, nor even required) TURBINE PIC AND MOVE ON."
 
Mark815 said:
This is almost exactly what was said in my new hire ground school during indoc. I, and others were very pissed off by the attitude.

An Asst. CP came in to talk to us, when somebody asked about pay raises, he stopped, looked around the room and said "Well this room is pretty full now isn't it? I don't see any reason here to raise pay."

It's attitudes like that which prevent me from having an ounce of compassion for any of these regionals, even the one I work for. I'm getting some great experience, but the moment I can move on to greener pastures I'm out.
Click to expand...
You can't handle the truth.
 
mshunter said:
I cat find my notes I took, sorry. What I do remember is listening to one of the guys tell me about it, reading it to me, and saying "WHAT! THEY CAN DO THAT?!?!"
Click to expand...

I can do that with every contract in the industry, including Delta's. Your point?

No contract is perfect. They are all a series of compromises that add up to something acceptable to both sides.

Autothrust Blue said:
Ain't personal, it's business.

Remember that.
Click to expand...

Truth.
 
The PSA contract had some neat things in it, SAP for one. I wasn't intimately familiar with it, but generally the one thing the commuters have going for them is the ability to make a ton of credit while working less. The PSA SAP program allowed guys to drop trips and then pick them up again (or others) for 150% (IIRC) pay. Since most places have a lot of open time nowadays, especially at the commuter level, this was a great way to double dip.

You could do this for a month or two and then next month drop down to minimum hours, with a ton of days off, if you wanted. Or if you didn't, just work the same trips for 50% more pay.

It was a huge QOL booster.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
Ain't personal, it's business.

Remember that.
Click to expand...

There's nothing impersonal about how you make your living - despite what people would have you believe. We spend most of our lives at work - "Ain't personal, it's business" is what people say to justify treating people as objects. Business is personal.

Now, I will say this, having been in management - pilots don't necessarily see the big picture. In management, 99% of your time is spent trying to pick the lessor of two evils and reduce the possible harm that can happen - there ARE • CEOs, but remember, people are generally good and trying to do what they think is the right thing to do given the information they have... Even if it does burn one part of the institution.
 
wheelsup said:
The PSA contract had some neat things in it, SAP for one. I wasn't intimately familiar with it, but generally the one thing the commuters have going for them is the ability to make a ton of credit while working less. The PSA SAP program allowed guys to drop trips and then pick them up again (or others) for 150% (IIRC) pay. Since most places have a lot of open time nowadays, especially at the commuter level, this was a great way to double dip.

You could do this for a month or two and then next month drop down to minimum hours, with a ton of days off, if you wanted. Or if you didn't, just work the same trips for 50% more pay.

It was a huge QOL booster.
Click to expand...

Except that for the illegal actions the company is taking to screw with reserve numbers has made SAP a scheduler adjuster only, you can't do anything lucrative with it right now. Nothing is critical because the number of reserves needed always magically seems to match the number of reserves available ever day (I've seen -5 before, apparently they need -5 bodies, how this is possible is beyond me). This also makes it impossible to adjust your schedule after SAP closes, you can only add flying out of open time, not swap, even on a one for one to move a trips back or fowards. Hopefully this gets fixed sooner than later.
 
Mark815 said:
This is almost exactly what was said in my new hire ground school during indoc. I, and others were very pissed off by the attitude.

An Asst. CP came in to talk to us, when somebody asked about pay raises, he stopped, looked around the room and said "Well this room is pretty full now isn't it? I don't see any reason here to raise pay."

It's attitudes like that which prevent me from having an ounce of compassion for any of these regionals, even the one I work for. I'm getting some great experience, but the moment I can move on to greener pastures I'm out.
Click to expand...
I don't condone management coming in announcing that, BUT:
In the management defense, you knew the deal going into the new job, did you not? I can understand asking for raises after some time in the seat, but new hire? I would say the Asst. CP was spot on in his assessment. Until they can not fill seats in class, the pay is fine.
 
TWP said:
There should be no such thing as a pilot with pax behind him making less than 60k a year, and that should be increased with inflation every.single.year.end of story.
Click to expand...
Only if they can not put butts in seats. Until then, lay back and enjoy.
 
Mark815 said:
This is almost exactly what was said in my new hire ground school during indoc. I, and others were very pissed off by the attitude.

An Asst. CP came in to talk to us, when somebody asked about pay raises, he stopped, looked around the room and said "Well this room is pretty full now isn't it? I don't see any reason here to raise pay."

It's attitudes like that which prevent me from having an ounce of compassion for any of these regionals, even the one I work for. I'm getting some great experience, but the moment I can move on to greener pastures I'm out.
Click to expand...
You should have gotten up and walked out.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top