ALPA: It's Time for Regionals To Raise Pay

The unions routinely turn down increased wages at the bottom because they want even more increases at the top. In addition, the union divies up the total compensation, if both were paid $50/hr vs. $80/hr and $20/hr the company wouldn't care. Total cost is the same.

This is false. Contrary to the popular belief of people who have never negotiated a CBA, management is very much concerned about where the money goes. While they have in mind a total yearly dollar figure that they're willing to spend, they also want to dictate where that money gets spent for various reasons.

This is why companies have resorted to sign on bonuses because union contracts don't prohibit them.

Again, false. Compensation is a mandatory subject of bargaining, so signing bonuses are prohibited by default unless the contract specifically allows for them. Managements have gotten away with these bonuses either by paying them the moment before the pilot becomes an official employee ("here's your sign-on bonus, now here's your employee ID"), or because the union has simply allowed them without protest. If challenged, non-contractual sign on bonuses would be thrown out, and would actually be considered a major dispute rather than a minor dispute.

That sounds good in theory but past precedence has said otherwise. Both Republic and Pinnacle management tried to do it and both times the unions stopped the raise in its tracks. They wanted raises for everyone, not just F/O's.

This is a misleading statement. You make it sound as though management wanted to level the payscale slope, but in reality they only wanted to give raises to one year on the longevity scale: the first year. The second, third, fourth, etc. year FOs would get nothing. A guy who just came off probation yesterday and suffered through $20/hr would get nothing while the guy hired today would get $25/hr. This is obviously completely unacceptable, and the unions were right to challenge it and stop it. You can't allow management to solve their short-term problems without addressing your long-term problems. Leveling the slope of the pay scale is a legitimate position (although I disagree), but allowing management to pick and choose who gets a raise and who doesn't is absolutely unacceptable.

Going forward, with 401k the standard way of saving for retirement, you need to front load your pay. Spending the last 5-10 years making $300k starting off at $40k-$70k vs. our entire career making ~$200k (just using random numbers) most likely will net a better long term financial position.

The money pile is a finite pile. Management doesn't care how it's distributed as long as the numbers match.

Again, this is completely wrong. A steep longevity slope is what management wants, also, so they aren't going to let you distribute the money anyway you want. To simplify things to make the point clearer, let's assume a 2 step longevity scale:

Year 1: $50/hr
Year 2: $150/hr

You might say "average them out and pay both year 1 and year 2 $100/hr. It's the same money." But it's not the same money. There are 500 pilots at year 2 longevity and 1000 pilots at year 1 longevity, let's say. So you've averaged the rates to level the slope, but you've increased management's costs by 20%. And if they're expecting lots of hiring during the term of the CBA, they'll be even more averse to this philosophy, because the steep slope reduces their costs even more during times of bringing on new people.

Even new contract signing bonuses get management negotiating for how they want them distributed. If you listen to the crew lounge lawyers, they'll tell you that management doesn't care, because it's just a big lump sum of money. Wrong. Management views the signing bonus as a way to buy votes, so how it's distributed is very important to them. Contract doesn't have enough in it to buy senior votes? Increase the slope of the distribution of the signing bonus. Reserve work rules weren't addressed well enough to buy junior votes? Allocate the signing bonus mostly to the longevity years who are currently sitting on reserve in both seats.

Everything in the CBA is negotiated intently by management, even if the actual sum paid out doesn't change. When you actually sit at the bargaining table, things look a lot different than they do while pontificating in a cockpit or the crew lounge. Things that you think management doesn't care about, they care about a great deal.
 
Agreed. Even the infamous J.O. responded to the low pay claims with "We've got pilots making 100k+. I'll cut the money pie any way the union wants if they want to raise starting pay"

J.O. may be a bastard, but he's no dummy.

Actually, that is pretty 'dumb' for him to say and is probably rhetoric he said to make him look like a 'nice guy' and put pressure on the union. He does NOT want folks to ever make $100,000 at his company. He wants folks to come in, fly a few years as a FO, upgrade to Captain, fly 1000-1500 hours as Captain which is about 2-3 years and then move on before they top out to make 100 grand...
 
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Actually, that is pretty 'dumb' for him to say and is probably rhetoric he said to make him look like a 'nice guy' and put pressure on the union. He does NOT want folks to ever make $100,000 at his company. He wants folks to come in, fly a few years as a FO, upgrade to Captain, fly 1000-1500 hours as Captain which is about 2-3 years and then move on before they top out to make 100 grand...

That's what I mean, he's no dummy. I too believe its rhetoric to make him look like a nice guy and pull some leverage. Here's the same guy who would wonder why he should pay pilots more than what they're making, while he has a stack of resumes of guys willing to do it for less.

He's a bastard. But he's no dummy. He's been playing this game for a long time as a villian.
 
That's what I mean, he's no dummy. I too believe its rhetoric to make him look like a nice guy and pull some leverage. Here's the same guy who would wonder why he should pay pilots more than what they're making, while he has a stack of resumes of guys willing to do it for less.

He's a bastard. But he's no dummy. He's been playing this game for a long time as a villian.

Yeah I figured that's what you meant.

It's ashame other folks are falling for his rhetoric.
 
I am actually one of those that will work with the unions. I enjoy negotiations and all that good stuff. For those who have experienced it, what is the most valuable skill to have in your tool bag?
 
How about its not as good as previous contracts they both had. But hey, they got shiny new jets, so what's it matter.
Well when left with the option of signing or saying "bye bye" to their jobs, can you blame them? I don't understand all the vitriol directed towards PSA anymore. Of the original pilot group of less than 500 pilots, about 60% voted for concessions. And of the 1,000+ pilots currently I property today, only about 150 or so of those original voters even remain. PSA twice voted "no" to a concessionary contract. And twice those airplanes went to Mesa. The third time, they were threatened with a shutdown. A small airline like PSA could of been easily shutdown by AAG, and you better believe they would of. I have friends at Envoy who don't blame anyone for coming to PSA. And I know guys from Envoy who have come to PSA to further their careers. One of them upgraded in 12 months. None of them are bitter or blame PSA for what happened at Envoy. They blame Doug and AAG. Just like you should too. If PSA, Piedmont, and Envoy would of all "held the line" and voted no. Then all 3 would of been downsized and their flying given to a non wholly-owned regional. Blaming anyone but AAG for what happened is simply foolish. And you are playing into AAG's divisive tactics.
 
I have no idea what the solution is.
If there's a Widget on the side, then the guys up front should be required to wear hats, double breasted coats, and be on the Widget list, and under the Widget PWA, at Widget pay rates, etc.

Behold, I have fixed it.

Unfortunately, it is too late to do that.

I think the future is more mainline carriers doing more of their own "regional" flying, but then that leaves out a bunch of regional pilots that maybe didn't fit the traditional requirements of the majors, which leads to, uhh, Jar Jar… Dark side.
...until the next scope giveaway anyway.
 
How about its not as good as previous contracts they both had. But hey, they got shiny new jets, so what's it matter.

You're full of crap. My signature is in the last page of one of those contracts and I can unequivocally tell you that the language that is in there now is 100% better than what used to be in there.

But be sure to let the rhetoric of people that have absolutely zero perspective or knowledge form your opinion for you and stuff.
 
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