Allegiant Airlines

HRDiva said:
First year pay took a cut. When it came down to it they took the increases for pilots on the property. And the increases were for the FO's on the property.
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True as well. It was a significant gain for the NK FOs. I wish NK well for the next round which should be coming up fairly soon. Unlike last time the industry is now in a full upswing in the pilots favor so hopefully things go much better for the entire industry for the next round of negotiations.
 
For law enforcement, many departments have different hirings for newbies vs those with X amount of experience or certs. Generally seen as Police officer/Deputy/Trooper - Recruit, as opposed to Police officer/Deputy/Trooper - Lateral. Meeting the criteria for lateral, you generally only go through a familiarization academy and Field Training Officer period, and start at higher pay. Some departments have continuous/concurrent openings for this, others do it only as necessary, and others don't offer it at all and everyone starts as a recruit regardless of experience. Very, very few fire departments do this, however; as this is primarily a law enforcement thing.
 
I have never really been a union guy. I never worked for a 121, so IF that ever happens my view may change. But in the construction world, the union workers were about as lazy as you can get. Show up at 8, eat donuts for an hour, three mandatory coffee/rest break every day (a 15 minute break that literally takes 30 minutes of time by the time you get to full speed again), 1 hour lunch. Stop work by 4:30 so that you can pack up and be home by 5. It used to drive me nuts working with these guys. Lets get our work done instead of trying to milk the system!

My way of striking againts low pay in the construction world is to not work for them. Somone will value your hard work and pay what your worth. I know the aviation world is a different ball game so Im supportive of pilots working for a better tomorrow. I do think pilots are quick to throw their fellow pilots under the bus if they dont agree with each other.
 
Fly_Unity said:
I have never really been a union guy. I never worked for a 121, so IF that ever happens my view may change. But in the construction world, the union workers were about as lazy as you can get. Show up at 8, eat donuts for an hour, three mandatory coffee/rest break every day (a 15 minute break that literally takes 30 minutes of time by the time you get to full speed again), 1 hour lunch. Stop work by 4:30 so that you can pack up and be home by 5. It used to drive me nuts working with these guys. Lets get our work done instead of trying to milk the system!

My way of striking againts low pay in the construction world is to not work for them. Somone will value your hard work and pay what your worth. I know the aviation world is a different ball game so Im supportive of pilots working for a better tomorrow. I do think pilots are quick to throw their fellow pilots under the bus if they dont agree with each other.
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Pilots are no different. Many want to fly as little as possible and make the most money.
 
Fly_Unity said:
I have never really been a union guy. I never worked for a 121, so IF that ever happens my view may change. But in the construction world, the union workers were about as lazy as you can get. Show up at 8, eat donuts for an hour, three mandatory coffee/rest break every day (a 15 minute break that literally takes 30 minutes of time by the time you get to full speed again), 1 hour lunch. Stop work by 4:30 so that you can pack up and be home by 5. It used to drive me nuts working with these guys. Lets get our work done instead of trying to milk the system!

My way of striking againts low pay in the construction world is to not work for them. Somone will value your hard work and pay what your worth. I know the aviation world is a different ball game so Im supportive of pilots working for a better tomorrow. I do think pilots are quick to throw their fellow pilots under the bus if they dont agree with each other.
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I tend to agree with you but in the aviation world the Union provides basic things, like protecting you from being sent on the road for 6 months straight away from your family. The regular 9-5 worker doesn't have to deal with that.
 
HVYMETALDRVR said:
I tend to agree with you but in the aviation world the Union provides basic things, like protecting you from being sent on the road for 6 months straight away from your family. The regular 9-5 worker doesn't have to deal with that.
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Maybe for a cargo/non-sked. Passenger airlines don't send you away for 6 months. :)
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Maybe for a cargo/non-sked. Passenger airlines don't send you away for 6 months. :)
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Allegiant does, before our voluntary home basing we would involuntarily TDY people around the system to cover increases in flying seasonally. To make matters worse they often do it out of seniority. The record holder was 17 months straight out of LAS mostly to FL with blocks of 1 to 2 days off, maybe a 3 day once per month. This still goes on although not as bad.

Examples are FL in the winter in Spring Break, MYR and BLI in the summer.

Again, no real contract and Union protections? This company will and has done what they want.
 
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Avalon781ML said:
I'll gladly fly 85-100 hours a month but I also want to be compensated in a manner that rewards working hard.
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I agree. I'm the same train of thought. I've only flown at the airlines since 2007 but every year I have flown it's been 900 hrs or greater (and by choice). Some of the worst complainers out there are guys who are always trying to game the system and fly as little as possible for as much pay as possible. Then something goes wrong and they have to fly and get beotchy.

Avalon781ML said:
Apparently you don't know Allegiant very well. I've been home 3 times in 5 months. A few of my coworkers haven't been home at all in similar timeframes.
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True. I wasn't aware of Allegiant's TDY practices until recently. I'm surprised at how bad its gotten considering how profitable the Allegiant Co. is.
 
If your interested read the thread under "majors" on APC. It's 100+ pages but it details the slow morphing of G4 into what it is now.

We still have a voluntary TDY base going. If you senior in it you can bid a somewhat respectable schedule and get home. A junior new hire in it can expect to be perpetually on the road and be lucky to get one 3 day block off per month.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I agree. I'm the same train of thought. I've only flown at the airlines since 2007 but every year I have flown it's been 900 hrs or greater (and by choice). Some of the worst complainers out there are guys who are always trying to game the system and fly as little as possible for as much pay as possible. Then something goes wrong and they have to fly and get beotchy.



True. I wasn't aware of Allegiant's TDY practices until recently. I'm surprised at how bad its gotten considering how profitable the Allegiant Co. is.
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No disrespect, I know you guys at VX are non-Union. If you have a friendly caring management that values your employees, it can work. Just pray you never merge with a Union carrier.

This isn't the case at G4. Priorities are mainly the stock price and shareholders. The company has come around a little on some things (like the new voluntarily home basing system). But I suspect a lot of this is because attrition has increased as we'll, and were competing for talent now.

Management's tactics and practices have also converted a lot of our pilots into card carrying Union members. We've got a good amount of mil and senior check airmen now that blew off the initial Union presentations, and dinners, and meetings. Now, after an involuntarily TDY out of seniority, and being JR. manned on they're anniversary or daughter's birthday they're wearing Union lanyards and leading the charge.
 
HVYMETALDRVR said:
No disrespect, I know you guys at VX are non-Union. If you have a friendly caring management that values your employees, it can work. The only exception being if your non Union and merge with a union carrier? Yeah that would be ugly.

This isn't the case at G4. Priorities are mainly the stock price and shareholders. The company has come around a little on some things (like the new voluntarily home basing system). But I suspect a lot of this is because attrition has increased as well and were competing for talent now.

Management's tactics and practices have also converted a lot of our pilots into card carrying Union members. We've got a good amount of mil and senior check airmen now that blew off the initial Union presentation and dinner. Now, after an involuntarily TDY out of seniority, and being JR. manned on they're anniversary or daughter's birthday they're wearing Union lanyards and leading the charge.
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It's non-union at the moment but my guess is ALPA will pass in a few months ~70% voting yes. I'm not too well versed with Allegiant or their union status. I'm glad to see solidarity though and it's always nice to get the hardcore nay-sayers somewhere into the middle. What union is it and what is the status? Did you already have a CBA and working on another one, or is it a new union and negotiating first contract?
 
HVYMETALDRVR said:
If your interested read the thread under "majors" on APC. It's 100+ pages but it details the slow morphing of G4 into what it is now.

We still have a voluntary TDY base going. If you senior in it you can bid a somewhat respectable schedule and get home. A junior new hire in it can expect to be perpetually on the road and be lucky to get one 3 day block off per month.
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As of these last few months seniority actually hasn't made much, if any, difference.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
It's non-union at the moment but my guess is ALPA will pass in a few months ~70% voting yes. I'm not too well versed with Allegiant or their union status. I'm glad to see solidarity though and it's always nice to get the hardcore nay-sayers somewhere into the middle. What union is it and what is the status? Did you already have a CBA and working on another one, or is it a new union and negotiating first contract?
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Short answer, IBT and they were voted in 2012 by about 60/40. There were prior separate IBT and ALPA drives in the preceding years. By comparison last month's strike vote was a 98% yes with those participating.

Before that, it was the Allegiant Air Pilot Advocacy Group (AAPAG), which was a non Union group that worked with management to settle differences. They negotiated a flimsy PWA as a guideline that the company sometimes followed, but often didn't. The work rules in this PWA are weaker than most regionals, although our hourly rates are much higher.

Last year, we won a court case that says the PWA is legally binding, the company has to respect it like any other contract.

Now, we've put in a proffer to be released, the NMB hasn't responded yet but cancelled all our future negotiation sessions with management (a good sign). If the proffer is approved the 30 day cooling off period starts.

Pretty much it in a nutshell.

@Avalon781ML correct me if any of the above is inaccurate.
 
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@HVYMETALDRVR you hit the important bits. It is also important to note that a couple years ago commutable schedules were available (as hard lines were bid back then before this new optimizing software) and folks enjoyed more days off company wide. Captains I fly with now have told me their first month's schedule as a newhire FO was better than what they have now bidding near/at the top of their base.
 
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