Allegiant Airlines
- Thread starter BravoHotel
- Start date
av8tr1
"Never tell me the odds!"
Actually you weren't right about that. I do have a legal education, I am just not a lawyer. Not everyone who studies law takes the bar. Yet they can still study the law and get a education in it. I also studied engineering, computer science and aviation. But I am not an engineer, nor a computer scientist.
And we are having steak tonight.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Sure thing.
av8tr1
"Never tell me the odds!"
Yes yes, take your ball and go crying to daddy.
You're being ridiculous. Are you actually suggesting I am part of some hidden conspiracy against the unions and was planted here like some cold war spy just to wait for the perfect opportunity to strike a huge blow against the unions on an anonymous internet forum.
Or is it possible that I am merely a new airline pilot who is a little older and more experience than the average entry level industry participant. Who is changing careers and has questions. "Most" of which have been answered here.
Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
If you are going to criticize a union in the presence of its members, you better have your facts straight.
Likewise, if you want to fly in the majors, you need to ask yourself if you are willing to accept the rules, written and unwritten. If not, there are other career options without union constraints.
With regards to conversations about previous strikes, I lurked and learned something.
When you are talking about an industry that is largely unionized and likely to remain that way, why make philosophical arguments about unions in general when specifics are on the table?
My only gripes about aviation unions are that they have failed to improve the standard of living for regional pilots and have been very weak politically.
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BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
It's not a hidden conspiracy. It happens. Often. Normally they ask the same questions you are asking. And then it eventually comes out that they are some intern on the 5th Floor of Ford and Harrison in Atlanta or of United Corporate in Chicago. You wouldn't be the first, although I happen to think you actually are what you say you are. That said, don't pull the "older and more experienced" card when you have no idea who your audience is.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Membership isn't, but paying your agency shop fee is. Mandatory membership is illegal in the United States.
Yes. Better get over you hatred of the "mainstream media" and keep in touch with what's going on like a normal person.
That's every union, actually. It's the law.
It wouldn't. A SCAB is a SCAB.
Agency shops are not illegal. Closed shops are. Strange, I would have figured that someone who "studied law" would know that. Even if he didn't take the bar.
Starting to lose credibility. Troll detector is starting to wake up.
AOPA isn't a union. It's a joke. ALPA provides legal representation, aeromedical services, insurance, collective bargaining, disciplinary representation, substance abuse help, accident investigation, the list goes on. It's a bargain.
Credibility almost gone. Troll detector in high gear.
I've taken legal courses. I wouldn't tell people that I've had a "legal education," though. That would be misleading.
Troll detector is screaming! We have a winner!
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
I think a few things.
I think it's unlikely someone has a BS in CS, a BS in engineering and a JD and THEN decides to go become a pilot, but is somehow unable to google all this information on their own.
Finishing law school and not practicing? I can believe that, because that's me. Whether I pass the bar in a few weeks or not will not result in a legal career for me.
But finishing law school and not being able to tell us what an agency shop is, or whether state law or federal law supersedes with an airline that operates under the RLA, a federal law?
That's surprising to the point of my questioning your background.
And if you can't get your background straight (are you a helicopter pilot or an airline pilot), then who are you?
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
Side bar your honor.
Move to strike
Approach?
Allocute
Mens rea
Law words/terms I know thanks to Law & Order SVU. Might be missing some others but that's all I could think of on the spot.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
That's pretty much all I know.
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
Sustained
dustoff17
Still trying to reach the Top Shelf
Learned something tonight. Never realized this. So forcing someone pay for the service IS mandatory but making someone join the organization and pay is illegal?
My only experience is from a previous job. The union I worked with "offered" membership as an option. You only had to pay if you joined. They did have one really weird thing though: If a member wanted to quit, they could only get out of the union on the anniversary of the day they joined +/- one day. I always thought that to be a bit strange...
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
There used to be closed shops where you HAD to be in the union. Agency shop was a compromise so that unions didn't have free riders, and folks weren't forced to join.
Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
Not so strange. Many union contracts have elements that are population-driven. For example, a contract might say that you can't lay-off more than 10% of your workforce. So, workforce size must be defined in detail.
Avalon781ML
Well-Known Member
And now back to all things Allegiant Airlines concerned..................... although I doubt that'll happen.
Avalon781ML
Well-Known Member
I agree with you that you aren't a lawyer, engineer, komputerrr nerd, and........... possibly not even a pilot. I mean what is, like, your route? Don't autopilots, like, do everything for you? Why would you, like, not join a pilot union? OMGZ.... how do helicopters fly? They don't have wings! Do you know how to code in C++?
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Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
cout << "No";
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Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
Or, given an aviation theme:
Put_Line ("No");
Put_Line ("No");
av8tr1
"Never tell me the odds!"
Hey now, there is a cogent logic response beyond, bad things happen unless you join the union. Bob, I appreciate you giving me the benefit of doubt. I totally believe it happens. But from an outsider looking in it plays more like something from fictional shows like the Sopranos.
I looked over the thread "My side of the story" and was shocked at what I took away from the thread. I did some more digging through Google and really questioned what I was seeing. Peoples lives are at stake on both sides but I saw what I can only describe from my layman's understanding was childish behavior and a lot of whats good for the goose isn't good for the gander sort of things. And I saw criminal behavior "Supposedly" on the part of union members.
So far in asking the fairly simple questions I have asked which are
1. What benefits do I get out of the union?
2. What does it cost? (This was well answered)
3. Some theoretical situations about what could go wrong.
I've heard in response, and I am paraphrasing here "you have two choices join the union or don't either way pay the same fee". "If you don't join the union, you don't get any protection". "if you speak out against the union, bad things will happen to you". "If you work during a strike regardless of how important income is to you, bad things will happen". "If you unknowingly make a mistake, and work during a strike, bad things will happen to you".
Oh and you're a troll and everything you say is a lie.
Did I get any of the above wrong? Anyone see a problem with this? There is a lot of similarity to the other big thread on ISIS. My God is better than your God and all that sort of rot.
Here's an idea. Instead of "Join the union or your career is dead", how about you talk about all the great work the union has done for its members. Talk about all the good the union does for its members. What specifically it does. And how important it is for the industry as a whole.
You guys are doing a stellar job representing what is supposedly a important benefit of the career. And made me seriously question if I want anything to do with 121 aviation. Thankfully there is lots of work outside of 121 and unions.
No I am not a troll. I do not work for the union. I have never been part of a union. I have never worked in an industry that has had a union. My entire experience with unions comes from what I see on TV both in fictional stories and news reports. Although my Aunt worked for United and lost her retirement when the company went bankrupt. She was part of the union for her entire career (something like 30 years I think) and wasn't happy with the outcome and was very vocal about it. If I recall she eventually lost her house as a result of it. We were not close and I don't know all the specifics.
You can believe me or not. Frankly I don't care. Its an anonymous internet forum. The suns going to come up tomorrow and mom will have my clothing all picked out for me before I go to school.