Alaska landing incident SNA

Pilot Fighter said:
Are you a 129 Growler IP? There’s already talk of putting g-limits on Growlers. Have fun while G’s are free.
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Yessir. It isn't just talk, we actively FLE limit our sorties. But certain events are designated as High FLE, such as the air to air/BFM events I mostly do (it was BFM this am). I think it is kinda a hold over from the Prowler, but it probably makes a small amount of sense, considering how long these airframes are going to need to last. I don't see it getting worse though.....I haven't heard any mention of artificially limiting the G loading aside from this method.
 
Kingairer said:
Did y’all have anyway to measure G load on a typical carrier landing? Or can you estimate?
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There is a menu (our takeoff and landing checklists page) we can call up, that lists the max Nz recorded. So yeah, that is available. This recorded value is also what ends up setting our hard landing code(s). I can't remember what value is the threshold, but as you might imagine, it is a lot. Much more sensitive if a nose first landing (that is where the Nz is measured from).
 
///AMG said:
Yessir. It isn't just talk, we actively FLE limit our sorties. But certain events are designated as High FLE, such as the air to air/BFM events I mostly do (it was BFM this am). I think it is kinda a hold over from the Prowler, but it probably makes a small amount of sense, considering how long these airframes are going to need to last. I don't see it getting worse though.....I haven't heard any mention of artificially limiting the G loading aside from this method.
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A NavAir guy told me that things were going to get more restrictive in the next couple of years. Of course, I think all rumors and lies start at NavAir.
 
Pilot Fighter said:
A NavAir guy told me that things were going to get more restrictive in the next couple of years. Of course, I think all rumors and lies start at NavAir.
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Yeah certainly could be. The main issue is that a lot of our tactics require more than 4G's (the current limit for "low FLE" events), and you of course have to train to the execution of said tactics. When I was a student at VMFAT-101, we had a lot of old FLE limited jets, and on those jets they just threw two drop tanks on them to the point where you couldn't realistically sustain heavy G for any significant amount of time. I could see this method being used in the future of the G community, slicking them off for BFM only (which isn't done a whole lot outside of -129). Probably not much of an issue with a combat configured aircraft, like most of the fleet squadrons fly around day to day, as the "battle grizzly" flies like a 5 wet super hornet......or perhaps a more apt comparison would be a dump truck
 
///AMG said:
Yeah certainly could be. The main issue is that a lot of our tactics require more than 4G's (the current limit for "low FLE" events), and you of course have to train to the execution of said tactics. When I was a student at VMFAT-101, we had a lot of old FLE limited jets, and on those jets they just threw two drop tanks on them to the point where you couldn't realistically sustain heavy G for any significant amount of time. I could see this method being used in the future of the G community, slicking them off for BFM only (which isn't done a whole lot outside of -129). Probably not much of an issue with a combat configured aircraft, like most of the fleet squadrons fly around day to day, as the "battle grizzly" flies like a 5 wet super hornet......or perhaps a more apt comparison would be a dump truck.
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Thanks for the background. I’m old and have no peers still in the game. My last buddy retired a few years ago … as an admiral.

Boeing has a separate production line for SLEP but the Navy is going to have to write a big check to keep it operating. Boeing is indifferent, with more profitable programs getting all the attention.

The Navy was hoping that the Indians would purchase the Super Hornet and keep production alive until 2027. I guess we couldn’t compete with French bribery.
 
Richman said:
Not pinging on any manufacturer in particular, but the last 5-10 years, I’ve noticed that metallurgy in general has gotten really sloppy.

Heat treated parts that aren’t, really weird corrosion modes on new parts, spalling where there should never be any, just a whole new level of WTFery.

We’ve either forgotten how to make stuff, or they just accept the crap that comes in a box with no QC.
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Everything in general is built really crappily now.
 
JordanD said:
Everything in general is built really crappily now.
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This. I’ve seen failure modes in basic, basic metallurgy that’s been well understood and been in production since the 50’s. Just in the last few years things have gone in the pooper. Like the old guy who had the recipe for the special sauce retired or something without writing it down first.
 
Richman said:
This. I’ve seen failure modes in basic, basic metallurgy that’s been well understood and been in production since the 50’s. Just in the last few years things have gone in the pooper. Like the old guy who had the recipe for the special sauce retired or something without writing it down first.
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Generally speaking, this has been my experience in the industry. Seems like there was a big brain drain following the collapse of the Soviet Union as Cold War era engineers retired and companies had less programs to sustain so they didn’t hire people to replace them and be mentored by them. Think about the century series fighter jet days and how quickly the industry turned those jets around, and compare that to today. Those guys had a lot more practice creating new things on a regular basis, rather than the next stretched variant of the 737…
 
Roger Roger said:
But outsourcing production to a lower cost vendor got mediocre dudes in suits some phat bonuses and temporarily pumped the stock price for shareholders and that’s what matters
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I miss the days when stuff was made to last. Even looking at reviews of brands that were generally known for dependability or durability, reviews now almost always seem to lament that the quality isn't what it used to be (but the price is higher, imagine that).
 
Pilot Fighter said:
In many cases, it is about competence and QA. Even in single-source situations where folks are happy to pay any price, folks are getting crap.
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And where did the competence and QA go? Into retirement with no one to replace them due to decades of mergers, buyouts, outsourcing, and general corporate BS
 
JordanD said:
I miss the days when stuff was made to last.
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A majority of my time is now spent in my wood shop. One of the hand planes I use on a regular basis was originally manufactured between 1888 and 1892*. Handed down from my carpenter father-in-law, who was born in 1920.

(* Stanley #7, Type 6, for any plane junkies)
 
Roger Roger said:
And where did the competence and QA go? Into retirement with no one to replace them due to decades of mergers, buyouts, outsourcing, and general corporate BS
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I agree with you to some extent, but there are other factors at play.

I know electrical engineers that have never repaired anything in their life, never soldered anything in their life, never tinkered with discrete components on a bread board, never tinkered with cars, planes, or motorcycles.

I know mechanical engineers that have never built or repaired anything, never learned to make drawings, never tinkered with planes, cars, or motorcycles.

I remember when industrial or agricultural towns had machinists, folks that could make stuff from scratch or modify parts.

That backgrounds are now rare, for a number of reasons.
 
Companies: strive to make every job entry level

Companies: LINE GO UP EVERY 3 MONTHS. NO DOWN. ONLY UP. SYNERGIES, PRODUCTIVITY.

Stuff is terrible

Also Companies: nObOdY wAnTs To WoRk aNyMoRe!!!
 
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